Last week I finally got a die set for the .30m1, together with a factory crimp. All dies are lee.

After trying out 5 rounds with 13grs v-N110 with 110grs FMJ bullets, PRVI cases (from factory ammo I fired myself) and S&B small rifle primers, all cycled well and I got 1 misfire (but there was a dent in the primer).

I decided to load 25 more, now with 12.5grs v-N110 (which was the most accurate according to the lee roloading manual) all cycled well again, but I had 2 misfires with a dent in the primer.

After dissasambling the misfired cartridges I noticed nothing special. But during reloading I noticed that the S&B primers were going in quite deep (1/100mm too deep according to my feelding) than normal. There are just not 100% perfectly flush at the end.

But then again.....the .30 carbine headspaces on the rim of the cartridge, right?

The accuracy was way better than before with PRVI ammo, this gets me with 10 rounds standing/10 kneeling at 25m to approx. 193 maximum......but last mondayevening I shot 197 out of 200 with the reloaded cartridges, so the accuracy is way better......only need to sort out the misfire problem.

I checked the firing pin and it looks ok to me. All is very clean (I clean my carbine after every 25 rounds). I also never got any misfire using PRVI factory ammo (where I re-use the cases from).

Another shooter is also using PRVI cases, but he uses Federal primers.

I checked the length of all cases before the reloading and all were fine. 

What can cause the misfires?

- Case slightly too short (on the minimum verge........) because it headspaces on case rim

- S&B primer is slightly less thick than federal primer?

- Problem with Lee safety prime tool that seats the primers too deeply? Is it maybe a better idea to seat using the primer seating tool on my Lee turret press?

I'm already very happy with the much improved accuracy..........but any tips on solving the misfire problem are very welcome.

Any other tips involved with reloading for the .30m1 carbine for accuracy are welcome. I wish to reload for accuracy.

Greetings from Holland

However you said it looked like they were sitting a little deep in the pocket.  This could be a light strike. I Googled around and found the following SAAMI table for primer and primer pocket tolerances.  You may want to check this out if you have a gauge that can measure to this readability.   Could be dimensions are off for either the primers and/or brass.  Good luck.

 

I've shot (and still am) ammo that I load with Wolf primers and they have never failed to go BANG. If Wolf is available where you are, I think they would be a good choice. I also interchange small rifle primers with pistol primers and have never noticed any difference in performance.

 

PS: Make sure to measure your fired cases and trim if necessary. It's not likely you would find one too short, as they grow upon firing...but you never know. Short brass could also cause ignition issues. If the extractor doesn't grab the rim and hang onto it, the round could be driven deeper into the chamber away from the bolt-face.

@Floyd: That is a very nasty problem. I still have the discharged primers and I will photograph the dents. So far they don't seem any different to me than the ones that fired.

Wolf primers: never heard of them. Going to check that at my armourer.

About the pistol primers: can you use a small pistol primer for a .30m1 round? I have pleny of those from CCI and they always go bang in my Dan Wesson 715VH4.

I measured the cases that didn't ignite. And I think 1 was just a tad too short.

@Sling: I never had any issues with PRVI ammo and I shot about a 1000 of those in this carbine. Sometimes in a while a misfeed but that is mostly causes by the used magazine (I have 2).

Therefore I also suspect the problem with the reloads.

I still have a box of PRVI ammo and I can measure the depth of the primers from those, as well al the case lengths. I can always unload a PRVI cartridge from that box.

@Blackfish: I'm using the Vihtavuori reload manual that states 32.6mm. After resizing and flaring all cases were 32.5-32.6 except one 32.7 (I threw that one away) and a 32.45 (that had the misfire). The other misfire was a 32.5 case so then it comes back at the primer.

I'm using 12.5grs v-N110 with a 110grs FMJ bullet.

I'm going to look for the Brownells chamber length gauge. Hope I can find it in NL because customs blocks all shipments coming in from outside the Netherlands. It is impossible to import anything that has anything to do with weapons around here.

I checked a few reloaded cases with my .30M1, but not all (as I always do with my Dan Wesson 715VH4 and my Tanfoglio witness 1911 custom, I just take the barrel out of the 1911).....I found it a bit dangerous to do inside the house but I will next time (check all reloaded rounds inside the .30m1 barrel) and will disassemble the .30m1 for that because of safety.

@1stM188: The cases were fired only once, so I still don't expect problems there. I also measured all the cases. I always do when reloading, I check all resized+flared cases with calipers. I started with reloading in dec. 2016, have good experience now with .38/.357 and .45acp so I still check all the resized+flared cases because of safety.

It was also the 1st thing that came to my mind when I set the primers.....wow, those go deep. I never had that while setting primers for .38/.357 (CCI small pistol primers) and .45acp (S&B large pistol primers).

I don't had any problems with the S&B large pistol primers in .45acp but after checking the setting depth of the primers they were nice and flush with the back of the case (like they should be, you must be able to run your thumb nicely over it without it feeling being out of the casing). Same goes for the .38/.357 primer setting.

It all comes back to the unexpected deep setting of the primers (but most of them still fired) in combination with a too short casing I think........

Going to measure the primers and holes in the casings as well as a new PRVI round from the box and compare that.

But, can I use (for a test) the small pistol primers for .30m1? I'm going to reload a few rounds again on monday/tuesday evening (since the shooting range is closed because of carnival).

Many thanks again for the good advice and greetings from a windy and rainy Netherlands (in a few hours a bft 10 storm is coming).

With that said I would do a little more research before loading up a pistol primer.  Perhaps someone with firsthand experience will weigh in on this.

Best regards

But with regard of the pressures..............a small pistol primer can withstand .357 pressure and since the .30m1 round is comparable to that........

Problem is that I reload the .357 with n340 and n110 which is a completely different powder. The pressure buildup is different, of course.

 

Interesting how you discovered some short fired cases, even if a tad. I may find some that have not grown measurably after firing, but never any that were short after firing and always have to trim most after multiple firings. Thinking the brass may have been short to begin with? If you don't have a brass-trimmer...U need to get one. It's essential when loading the caliber-30. The Lee Quick-Trim is a good one.

 

I don't know if the difference between SP and SR primers could be measured on a chronograph or not. I simply use what I have on hand and what's available at what price when I purchase them. I also use small magnum pistol primers on occasion, but drop the charge a little if I'm loading on the high-end of the charge-table. I can also say that CCI primers have a reputation for being some of the hardest. If you have a firing-pin contact problem, it will surely show-up using CCI primers. I do not think you're going to damage anything by the substitution of small pistol with small rifle primers...or vice-versa.

To the left the decapped primers of the misfired ones, to the right a correctly fired one. Seems more or less logical.

Yeah, I started out not too high because the Vihtavuori reloading manual stated 12.1grs as a starting load. To prevent misfeeds I put it a little higher but stil got a few. I also tried 5 with 13grs v-N110 that cycled well. Another shooter in our club (my main opponent in the .30m1 match) uses also the PRVI cases with 13grs ramshot enforcer.

 

I am reloading just about everything...except a PRVI, but only because I don't have any. Primers....I use Winchester WSP, TulAmmo KVB-223 SRP and on occasion Winchester WSPM (small pistol magnum) and back the charge down a couple of 10ths. I pretty much will shoot what I have, but have always avoided CCI due to their hardness reputation. I simply don't trust a progressive press for some things and use a  hand-primer for most of my work. I am a one-at-a-time guy and I like it that way.

 

I discovered early on that the carbine likes loads on the strong end of the scale. Light loads will cause ejection problems in either of my two carbines. I have chased action and spring issues that simply turned out to be ammo issues. 

All 3 primers are S&B small rifle, out of the same box. I also sent this picturer to my armourer, a very fanatic reloader, to see what he has to say. 

I used CCI small pistol without any problems so far with .357/.38 loads.

I also don't like this all at once without checking loading. I do all steps batch wise on the press. So 10x decap+resize, then flare+check if bullet seats, clean primer pocket+check case length.

After I've done that for the amount of cartridges I want to make I seat the primers in all of them. I use the Lee handprimer since that gives you a nice feel on how the primer is seated.

Then I put the charge in and since I'm quite new to reloading I measure all charges.

Then I inspect the level of charge visually for all loaded ones on the holder plate.

Then I seat bullets and crimp then with the factory crimp.

Al batchwise, so check, check check & double check. I've seen guys on youtube using Dillon presses that cranks out ammo at godspeed..........just to find out there is a seating problem afterwards and then you need to disassemble hundreds of rounds......No, I like to take it slow because in my opinion that will give more repetitive results and that is the main reason I started reloading. I want to reload for accuracy.

One thing I was told or read was to avoid factory crimp on .30 Carbine. The reason being is that if not done absolutely correct the case can slip past chamber effectively negating headspace.

 

I wonder if the force of the firing pin striking primer would have enough inertia to drive the case forward of the chamber.

 

In any case with any caliber that head-spaces on the case mouth, it should only be crimped enough to remove the bell resulting after case expansion (expander die). A FCD will "size" the round and generally remove the bell. Case crimping should not even be needed as case-tension retains the projectile, or is suppose to. All one wants to do is press the mouth back against the projectile. I just take mine thru the FCD and "bump" it a tad....then measure now-n-then to make sure I'm not over-crimping.

 

I would say that overzealous crimping could cause the round to creep.

I'll measure the size after the factory crimp and check it thoroughly. I will also check the loaded cases in the dissassembled barrel.

This evening all is very quiet here because of carnival and many folks that are on ski-holiday in Austria. So a perfect evening for reloading 50 more of .30m1. Yesterday I already decapped/resized/flared/cleaned and measured the length of the resized+flared casings for that.

 

You guys don't measure correctly over there...ha..ha..ha. All you have to do to get mm from inches is multiply 25.4 x the decimal number. .338 inches=8.585mm....

I tested all rounds inside the barrel and they chamber ok. I feel the rim touching and here the good sound when you let it fall inside the chamber.

 

 

I'm sure you meant that you feel the case-mouth touching? The rim should never touch the breech. It should remain exposed so the extractor can catch it and there will always be a small amount of unsupported section. If you really are pushing the round in enough for it to actually touch the face of the chamber.....there is a problem.

I'm curious for the results. Next week the range is open again and we will know if the 13.5grs improves the cycling and all primers fire. I noticed that the cases are quite full with 13.5grs v-N110.

 

PS: I went and looked. Looks like the max. load for that N110 is 14-grains. 13.5 should be safe. 12.1 appears to be the starting load.

Loading the misfired rounds in the magazine and firing them again gave misfires, but with loading them manually one by one I was able to fire a few previously misfired ones.

The grouping with 13.5grs v-N110 was awesome kneeled, so for the grouping and cycling this load is definately a keeper.

Going to get me some federal primers and test again.

Good luck.

My armourer said that the Federal primers are a bit softer, so that can maybe help.

The seating depth of both the Federal and S&B primers in both the PRVI and S&B brass was for my feeling slightly too deep. Seated them with the very convenient Lee Safety primer.

Next monday I'm going to test these rounds at the range and we will know more (or the same.....)

 

Maybe my equipment, maybe my technique or just me period, but I have never loaded a primer too deep. I am a one-pass-at-a-time loader and have never used anything progressive or automatic. My tools seat the primer flush with the rim and I've never tried to make one go any deeper.

I look forward to seeing how your new primers work out.  Keep us posted and have a good weekend. 

I am glad you've got it figured out.    

I noticed that with reloading it is that you either like or dislike it. I like it a lot and it is an expansion of the shooting sport hobby. It feels really good when you get excellent results with ammo that you made yourself.

Yes it does. Definitely a sense of accomplishment.  Somewhat similar to tying your own fishing lures and actually catching a fish with it.

Still shooting a tad high, so I will reduce the load from 13.5grs N110 to 13.0grs and try to get spot on again.

Best regards  

After a some experimenting I found that with 13.5grs v-N110 I'm shooting 10mm high, with 13.0grs v-N110 about 10mm low, grouping for both is the same. I made a new batch of rounds with 13.3grs v-N110. Yesterday I shot a series of 196/200 with the 13.0grs (4 9's because of having to do "kentucky windage" on elevation).........so the 13.3grs must put me right in the spot. 

I'm going to look for a fellow-reloader that has a speed measurement system because I'm curious where I'm at now, I'm guessing somewhere in the 1800fps ranges.

All ready now for the .30m1 clubmatch next week......there are a few new .30m1 shooters that are expert riflemen so it will be a nice and close match.

I was still fiddling around with the sight during the match, so still not optimal. Last week I put the sight a tad left after the 20 rounds and this evening I shot pretty well with the 13.3grs N110/110grs FMJ reloads......they are very close to PRVI factory rounds now with regard to grouping and point of impact, both standing and kneeling.

So 13.3grs N110 it will be for a long time now, I think. At least for my carbine.

Good news for the new shooters in our club that are not allowed (yet) to shoot large caliber guns and have to start with .22lr. Turns out there was a .22lr ERMA M1 in the club safe with a broken firing pin. it will be fixed coming weeks by the armourer and then we will have more M1 carbine shooters at the club.

Thanks and congratulations again!

The main reason not many people start with the .30m1 is because new shooters without a license cannot own, nor buy ammo themselves, they can buy it from the club (1:1 cost price) but it cannot leave the club and if there is some ammo left they write their name on the box and put it in the club's safe. Also when you don't have a specific type of weapon registered to your license, you are not allowed to have ammo for it outside the shooting club, that is the rule in Holland.

So people that have no .30m1 on their licence can only shoot with one of the club (we have 3 Inlands) and buy their ammo there. But a box of prvi .30 carbine costs 25 euro's, whereas a box of .22lr costs 5 euro's.

I reload now myself now and that saves a lot of money, but it is nice for a new shooter to become familiar with the .30m1 by using the ERMA M1 in .22lr. When they get infected they will also move onto the .30m1, I'm sure.

We also started by selling just a half box (25 rounds) of .30 carbine rounds for 12,50 euro's so they don't have to buy a whole box of ammo. 

So hopefully we get new shooters on the .30m1, it is a very nice and marvellous carbine, the more I shoot it, the more I like it.

Don't take any time looking it up but do you know how the other European countries gun laws compare? Hope I'm not asking too many questions but it just amazes me how much gun laws differ from here in the US.  I know I'm repeating myself but we seem to forget just how fortunate we are.  

Thanks!      

Our club, SV Triborgh, has about 300 members with about 200 that have a permit. Before this is was the SV COM Tilburg, a club of ex-marine veterans, so many members have been marines and these shooting clubs was a way for them to keep in touch with each other. 

Since about 15 years it was also allowed for non-marines to enter the club that that is where the current one evolved from.

Many of our members are ex. marines/military and quite a few police officers (they -also- need to shoot a minimum of 18x per year so do it in our club). 

With regard to other EU countries, especially the Eastern European ones where you can just buy a gun in every shop, the regulations are very strict incl. the licenses for armourers.

Besides the limitation on magazine capacity for semi-auto's that is under implementation now, most other new things that come from the EU regulation where already in effect in Holland, so I think that the EU took that as an example for all other member states.

I think the rules are even more strict in the UK where you are not allowed to have a short firearm, there you see 1911's converted with extra long barrels and strange stuff, that is not the case in Holland.

Only big problem here in Holland is this maximum of max. 5 firearms. I'm applying for a collectors permit, but for that you need to become a member of the "Edouard de Beaumont" collectors club that has a waiting list of 2 years before you can enter as an apprentice. You then have to do a research project on older firearms (and guess what firearm I'm going to research) and do a presentation before a commission. But I'm willing to do all that work for it.

What is also a problem here, is finding long range shooting ranges, therefore I also applied at a Belgian club just accross the border that has access to a 600m military range, but also there 1.5 years waiting list.

What is strange, is that when you want to start reloading, you just call the policeoffice that handles your permit and they just send you that WECG permit by mail..........

In Belgium the rules are different, there is no limit of max. 5 firearms, it is unlimited, but for reloading you need the approval of all people living in a radius of 100m around your house....strange...

Anyway, the Dutch police officer that I know well and is always on my tail with the .30m1 matches moved to Belgium because of the regulations and built a special house there with large basement where he keeps his large weapon collection. There the rules are different, the local police-officer comes to check together with the major (yes!) when you apply for the weapon collectors permit if all is safe.

In Holland every few years a marked policecar with 2 policeofficers in uniform come by to check unexpected if you store the weapons safely.

So, to me, there is no EU, all rules and things are still different, only thing that the EU consists of is this Euro (money) and the uncontrolled borders, but that's it. I never understand why we need to expensive EU parliaments for that, 1 in Strassbourg and 1 in Brussels incl. this committee and a EU president.......

So when you get signed up at the Belgian club, the 600m is going to be out of your carbine's range.  Looks like its time for an M1 Garand, an M1917, an M1903/1903A3, the list goes on...  Perhaps one of each with the collector's club?   Maybe you can spend the waiting period making out a wish list!  

Thanks again for the information!

You live in a marvellous weapon friendly country, please appreciate what you have over there, it's quite unique, same goes for the Germans with their highways with no speed limits.

After the waiting period they will pay me a visit with a few guys and hear me out what my intentions are, then the project starts, so I'm curious where this new trip will take me.

I hear signals that you can collect as many as you want, need a very big gun safe but that you are not allowed to shoot them.......(?!).

In Belgium there is 1 day per year a so called "test day" at a range, there you are allowed to shoot collectors weapons, but I'm not sure if the Dutch club also has this.

600m is well out of range of my carbine, but I'm already looking for a few months for a fine Swiss K31, just a few weeks ago somebody snatched a K11 away just under my fingers, I was just 10mins too late with a bidding, but I'm continuing to search for it, they go for 300-400 euro's here, so they're quite cheap for a well built nice accurate rifle like that.

Garands are way out of my financial budget, they go for 2000-2500 euro's here......

But collecting more .30m1 carbines is also an option, they still go for 300-400 over here for nice ones.