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Buying Your First Carbine

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: Carbine Related
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1301
Printed Date: Apr 18 2024 at 7:36pm
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Topic: Buying Your First Carbine
Posted By: Why Carbines?
Subject: Buying Your First Carbine
Date Posted: Mar 05 2016 at 9:47am
I thought, given the addition of some new members, that I would rework a thread I posted when this site first started back in January. It was about the do's and do nots of buying your first M1 carbine or to some degree buying a collectible carbine early in your collecting career.

First, and I can't emphasize this enough, before you buy your first carbine do as much research as you can! It's possible you won't even want one after you learn some of the highs and lows of the gun itself and the field of collecting the carbine.

Second, once you do the research part and have decided you want a carbine, look around locally online or locally. I have had really good luck picking up stuff online given that my local market is one step away from awful. Most of my online deals have gone really well, but there have been exceptions that were due to no fault of the people I was buying from. Of course if your local market is better than mine, a hands on look should help alleviate some or most of your concerns.

Third, if you are a first time buyer, please consider NOT buying a collector grade carbine right off of the bat. Buy yourself a shooter grade and advance your knowledge of the carbine before you throw out big bucks potentially for a collector grade. Learn to recognize fake parts through what ever means you can. Also, and this takes time, take the time to get a feel if something looks real or is no more than a put together of varying quality. This kind of knowledge will save you big bucks, but recognizing a put together is sometimes daunting for nearly all collectors. All of what I just said is an attempt to save newer members money.

Fourth, the term condition, condition, condition cannot be emphasized enough. Look for outward pitting on the receiver and barrel. Chances are that if there's pitting on the outside of the carbine, it may be inside of the barrel too, but not necessarily is that 100 percent true. Also, consider the chance that a receiver has been welded or has an import mark on it. Welded receivers are paperweights, while import marked carbines are sometimes embraced, sometimes reviled. If you buy an import, just be aware of the highs and lows of obtaining one as far as potential condition issues go and maybe more importantly the future negative resale value too.

Finally, passion in carbine collecting is a double edged sword. In one hand passion drives you to learn about carbines and expand your collection eventually. On the other hand, and I know this for a fact in my case, passion will drain your wallet faster than a politician makes promises. What I've finally learned, but still have to remember seemingly everyday, is to be highly objective, even critical of what I am looking at and keep an extremely questioning attitude about do I need this carbine or part and just how bad.

To sum all of this up, research is vital...do not buy without without some level of research! This site, the CMP forum and the Milsurps forum are all excellent starting places. The latest Craig Riesch book is a good starting place, but is also, like all M1 carbine books, imperfect. Another lesson I learned is do NOT rely on one source. In other words, Google, Google and Google again to try and find a set of facts, if possible, that seem everyone generally agrees with. You may never find a consensus opinion since there are always people online who will argue, but at least you can pick up a feel for the particular subject you are trying to research.

Good luck on your first purchase or even if you already have one the items I just brought up should help you along the way in collecting.



Replies:
Posted By: Lupus Dei
Date Posted: Mar 14 2016 at 8:13pm
Excellent advice, If this or any article/post has been useful to you there is a thanks function which shows your appreciation. It is on the upper right side of the post with a smiley face.
This awards points to that person which goes to their overall ranking.

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Louis Dey
Admin
www.uscarbinecal30.com/forums


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Mar 14 2016 at 9:12pm
Another great resource is other collectors. Identify the ones who know and are willing to help. Learn from them. Appreciate it. Pass it along. Some specialize in things like identifying flips, others are carbine encyclopedias. Lots to know and lots of resources/ppl to help. Hoping all new collectors get the chance to to crack open an original USGI carbine. Like Christmas over and over again. Nothing wrong with a mixmaster. I have a few. They come in handy for upgrading and sometimes hold surprises. It's a catch 22 but there are ways to speed up the process.


Posted By: Sledge
Date Posted: Jul 08 2017 at 5:36pm
re. Grunt:  "First, and I can't emphasize this enough, before you buy your first carbine do as much research as you can! It's possible you won't even want one after you learn some of the highs and lows of the gun itself and the field of collecting the carbine."

That is worth a second look.  False representations of originality are common, some unintentional, some not.  That part of collecting the carbine even has me a bit discouraged.  Now that I have learned a bit, it is relatively easy to spot a misrepresentation.  Each time I feel letdown, and relief that I didn't buy it and find out later.  Plus a bit peeved at the guy who looked me straight in the eye and lied to me.

Still looking though. 


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Jul 09 2017 at 7:43pm
Started out not knowing how to spot a fake, rework, etc... Much easier now and gernally takes less time. Even if it is though to spot, it's a chance to learn more as there is always room. Makes a nice one more rewarding especially when other might be busy bidding on something that isn't original.


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Jul 11 2017 at 1:32pm
A healthy dose of skepticism will keep your wallet full of cash!


Spelling...dang it!


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Jul 11 2017 at 8:20pm
Can be very rewarding being patient. Even if one discovers something they passed on was in fact original, there will always be another one.


Posted By: dchrys
Date Posted: Aug 03 2017 at 9:36pm


Posted By: Ronnie Fry
Date Posted: Aug 05 2017 at 11:07am
All of the above!!

PLUS

You never have to apologize for quality!!


Posted By: Sledge
Date Posted: Aug 05 2017 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

A healthy dose of skepticism will keep you wallet full of cash!

You mean until my wife takes it out to go shopping for more clothes?


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 11:13am
Here's an example of what to look out for on Carbines. Here's one I received and was an apparent put together when held in hand. There are 2 indicators of a rebuild in this pic. One is the dove tail where a type III sight once was installed/removed. You'll have to guess at the other, though it's not much of a mystery.




Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 11:23am
Bayonet shadow markings; here are other indicators to look out for on them. Held in hand, nobody can mistake what we have here. Band shadow from Hades. Confused In pic 2, note the circled area that doesn't photo well shows the pad wear from the type III barrel band. There will usually be at least one more mark from the 3 pads on a bayo lug. Someone chemically treated it to hide the shiny spot of the pad wear.






Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 12:23pm
Must have used a hammer to get the adjustable sight off.


Posted By: 1st M1 88
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 12:33pm
Looks like rear sight leaf has a casting line running down the center.


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by 1st M1 88 1st M1 88 wrote:

Looks like rear sight leaf has a casting line running down the center.


Yeah, it does. And as we know originals were not cast.

Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

Must have used a hammer to get the adjustable sight off.


Or a crow bar. I've seen them with smaller divot contact marks from a stamped type III but wow...


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 1:04pm
Looks like a repop flip.

Attempting to remove or install a rear sight the wrong way usually ends up with some kind of blunt instrument involvement. Subtle signs are also usually left behind even if the replacement sight is USGI.


Posted By: RClark9595
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 2:15pm
     I think I maybe like many new Carbine owners who put the horse before the wagon, in other words, I bought a carbine on a whim without much information because I just liked and wanted the little rifle. Then I joined the Carbine Club years later to find out that I knew almost nothing about it when I purchased it, and I may have paid a little to much for it.

     I've sense learned a lot more now about it and a little of it's history from the club. it is a mix-master, but is in very good shape, I think it was stored after the upgrades, because only the round bolt shows blueing wear on top, and the exterior and barrel needed a deep cleaning. The receiver says Winchester, (ser.# equals Nov 1943) and that is what I thought I had bought. but all the hardware I've looked at sense says Underwood, haven't done a data sheet yet, but will.

     The stock has an early I oilier cut and was re-cut to low wood, hand grip has a clear circle P. on the bottom. Stock has a clear .U. proof mark. Hand guard is two rivet. Shot the rifle only once, worked like a dream, (emptied a 30 round mag). Wonder if I should care about the mix of parts and just enjoy the gun as a great shooter, or try to make it manufacturer original (all Winchester) early/late like I thought I was getting?

     When I purchased the gun I thought I was getting a Winchester made rifle, that's how they advertised it, that's before I learned about the re-build program, now it looks like the gun is a little Winchester and a lot Underwood, so I don't really know what I have, just a fun shooter. Thought about trading some Underwood parts for Winchester, and maybe the stock for same, just to get it back closer to original Winchester. but is it worth the effort?

     Just throwing it out there, any thoughts, what have members done who bought their gun first and learned about them later like me, did you start correcting the gun, or just left it be, what's your first Carbine story?


-------------
Ron

USAF 4535 CCTS
F4 Combat Crew Training
Vietnam era Vet.


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 2:26pm
"Just throwing it out, any thoughts, what have people done who bought their gun first and learned later about it like me, did you start correcting the gun, or just left it be, what's your first Carbine story?"

Probably need to keep this on topic since it's such a valuable tool especially for the new collectors to evaluate their first Carbine...or future first Carbine purchase.


Posted By: RClark9595
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 3:58pm
     I don't think you can have one focus like this (pre-purchase only) without the other (after purchase also), all the research before you buy is great and is the smart road. But that sexy new 'car' on the lot often takes you in, and you buy on passion only to learn about it latter. People usually don't do much research at first, they often buy first and hope for the best latter.

     If my thinking is wrong, then maybe we need a new thread talking about Carbines purchased before we knew much about them. and doing we do the restoration dance.


-------------
Ron

USAF 4535 CCTS
F4 Combat Crew Training
Vietnam era Vet.


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 4:03pm
Definitely a new thread. This is about Buying your first Carbine. It's an instructional.


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 6:41pm
 

After deciding what your looking for, next step is shopping.
Ideally being able to have a hands on... eyes on inspection like in a person to person deal is the best way. 
In online and auction sales listings keep in mind that the only information is that supplied by the seller, of which you use to make your decision to purchase or not. Pictures and descriptions can range from a very experienced seller who knows what to show and describe, to a complete novice seller who really doesn't know what he has. Most of us have seen a carbine called a Underwood by a novice seller, when in reality it's a Underwood barrel, with the QHMC (etc) name covered by a adj rear sight. If interested let the seller know it ! Let him know your not just kicking tires. Most.. when they see your really interested will go out of their way to help. They did list it, they do want to sell. SO don't be shy... Ask questions, Ask for pictures, ask about inspection periods and possible return if not as expected. Keep a 'RECORD' of all interactions, text and Email messages. If your using your local FFL for your transfer, inform him there might be the possibility that you may have to return it. I've done this once and he didn't charge me.

With the prices of carbines these days, the rift raft has emerged from the shadows, some with skills. Capable of filling punch style stake marks, stamping Repro/fake Ordnance stamps, removing and color shading Import marks, manipulating the auction's picture colors/shade/tones..etc to give the metal that olive green patina that's really on a freshly parked carbine, parts that have been cold blued, installing fake parts...etc. This list goes on and on.

Really Important:
Pay close attention to how the seller: 'Represents', 'Promotes' or Describes the carbine. Many are slick and can write up and present a description better than a ole time 'Snake oil' salesman or politician. They know how to manipulate a sales add.... what to say, what not to show, and colorful ways of stating nothing that applies.

Lastly:
Probably already mentioned, but have a friend or two that can give you their opinions to your possible purchase.  

HTH,
Charlie-Painter777


Edit: to remove OT comments



-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 29 2018 at 9:29pm
One of those biggest challenges that new buyers face when buying is knowing who to trust, and that's what Why Carbines? is saying about intentionally going slowly when buying the first ones. Everybody can be taken (and eventually everybody gets taken in this hobby). What happens next is just as important.

Here's what scammers repeatedly pull when caught defrauding a buyer; they claim someone (usually the defrauded buyer) swapped parts and that you are trying to scam them. You need to know this when it happens to you so it's not a total shock of insanity (like it is). The fact that they try this without fail is a testament to the hideous intentions that they had for the buyer in the first place.

This can work to fool some witnesses on one single part, but when it accompanies multiple items like obvious band shadow, or scars from sight changing, and if it also has a replacement (repop) sight, well, it's an attacker crying out in pain as though he's the victim as he strikes you first. When I was brand new to the hobby I witnessed the above tactic attempted from one of the most well known Carbine collectors/parts sellers around, so it's not limited just to the outliers.


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Jan 30 2018 at 7:33am
I shop carbines like I would a used car. Just go-in with the idea the salesman is likely misrepresenting what he has, it has had the crap shot out of it and likely is a mix-master rebuild no matter what shape it's in, or what's hanging on it. You may never own a "collector", but you'll never pay too much for a fake one either.


Posted By: Nevinator
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 9:41am
Being rather new to Carbine collecting, I’d simply add that it would be in anyone’s best interest to spend $100 or so on some reference materials before they spend $1,000 or more on a rifle that may be worth considerably less. There is also a wealth of free info available on the web as well as military field manuals (FM’s) and technical manuals (TM’s).


Posted By: Lightning330
Date Posted: Sep 02 2018 at 8:42pm
Great thread, great topic. Speaking also as a new buyer going on 3 years. Lots to learn and watch for. So far, I feel on the okay mark per money invested. Very happy with my Inland and QHMC USGI and my commercial type 2 Universal. All are now working slick and great shooters. 
I see little in this post that puts a $ number for the first carbine purchase. It is a hard one to share because of what is out there, and the most important. Do your homework.
I spent probably more than I should of on all 3 of my carbines. But I also would not sell them at the so called shooter price if there is such a thing. It's just hard to give advice on these things.
First carbine with the excitement of doing it, can indeed hurt. I lived it, and got lucky enough on all 3 actually. Even a decent purchase at just saying... $1,000 can be an easy fix, or a total disaster.
There will most certainly be things you overlooked, or better said, had no clue. It's a role of the dice especially buying online.
Just be careful and ask advice if the time is allowed. If your at a gun show and feel that tingle like you might meeting some pretty thing leaving town the next day. Tongue Then your on your own.
My very first was bought at a gun show. The itch and love for the carbine had been with me since childhood. I knew not what I was buying. Just had the money and had to have it.
Type 2 Universal which is commercial. Paid $425 for it, which was too much. But after a lot of work.
I love and enjoy it to no end. Paid $950 for my 44 Inland, and $1,285 for my 43 QHMC.
All great, and hard to decide which one next too take shooting.
To all first carbine buyers: Happy hunting for starters. Just plan on and figure that there will be work to follow later. If you want and desire to learn the M1 carbine and spend time with it. Then your set. It's for sure a commitment with love and addiction all in one.



 
 


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Lightning 330


Posted By: WJH1958
Date Posted: Dec 22 2018 at 9:17pm
I'm looking for a Paratrooper model any advice on price range?  They seem to be all over the place from $1500 to $5000 

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WJH


Posted By: Nevinator
Date Posted: Dec 22 2018 at 9:50pm
$3,000 - $3,800 seems to be the going rate for a correct A1 model. An Arsenal rebuild will probably be priced more on the lower end.

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Retired First Sergeant, U.S. Army
Retired LEO
VFW Life Member
NRA Life Member


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Dec 22 2018 at 10:40pm
1st and 2nd prod's are very hard to find....original ones that is. Arsenal para's are somewhat easier to find, usually much cheaper and usually not monkied with. They also may have seen more than one war.

The BBOG values is a very hardy reference when it comes to pricing things like carbines. Prices are listed based on condition %. One can get a subscription on a monthly basis (4 or 5 bucks, IIRC) get what you want and cancel. Sometimes, I see old refernce books at shows and will pick them up just to see if the price has chanced and if so, how much. Your stated price range of 1.5k-5k, to me at least, covers the continuum for 1st , 2nd, CMP and arsenal carbines. The BBOGV lists 1st and 2nd prods around the same price. To me, the 1st prods are higher. Arsenal M1A1's are somewhere around half the price, but still GI. JMO, but 1.5k for an arsneal is a little low. 5k for a 1st prod is low, but pretty close for a 2nd prod. I've yet to see a 1st or 2nd prod sell without some type of bidding war in an auction setting.

Since this is a thread about buying your first carbine, be careful, diligent and suspicious. When it comes to 1st and 2nd prod para's, it is easy to get ripped off. Look closely at it for arsenal signs as they may be covered in dirt and grime.

When I first started, rather than jumping in to the 1st and 2nd prod world, I started with arsenal para's and learning about all of the junk people try to pass off as a paratrooper.

If you run into one and need some advice, I'm sure there are plenty of people here willing to help.


Posted By: RClark9595
Date Posted: Jan 04 2019 at 11:48am
Probably need to keep this on topic since it's such a valuable tool especially for the new collectors to evaluate their first Carbine...or future first Carbine purchase.

I'm a little miffed, as this thread advances, it makes my post more relevant, it is on topic and passing along what was learned after an un-informed purchase is just as important as learning before the purchase. Still educational, by the way, who and how does a thread become marked educational is there some folder for this or what? Does an Admin. have some way to flag it as educational that the rest of us don't know about? Be careful when biting some else's butt for a post, specially when it does turn out to be relevant.

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Ron

USAF 4535 CCTS
F4 Combat Crew Training
Vietnam era Vet.


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 05 2019 at 7:52am
Because once it starts, other people see it as an invitation to tell their personal story, which is why I posted that. Wink I don't mind reading other experiences; was just thinking this was more of a sticky note worthy technical thread. It doesn't mean you or I are right if other people do it. Lots of people smoke meth, for instance. And eh, maybe I'm wrong and it's a good thing for this thread to get those personal experiences too...because it's gonna happen I guess.

Let me add some personal experience (again) for educational matters: a few long timers will try to cheat you in your early enthusiasm (and ignorance). Maybe they think you will never learn the difference because that's the way it was before the internet when people weren't so connected to good people and good info. What did I do to combat being cheated if I couldn't evaluate it myself? So-and-so would contact me to sell something or I'd respond to a sale add, I'd get the part, install that newly bought safety on my Carbine and post a pic on the forum that I bought it on to show people my new purchase that I was excited about. And a knowledgeable poster would spot the questionable part (if it was) and he'd post a response on the thread. It was simple and effective. If a seller knows you're going to share pics of the part, they're more likely to be honest. But people will still try to cheat you.

I started about 8 years ago I think. I'm pretty new. Not like guys who claim 25 years, right? Guess what? Length of time means almost nothing. Because immediately I experienced long time 'collectors' trying to scam me on parts and it was happening on CMP where I first joined and started looking for stuff. There are some great people there but a few scammers too. Sometimes people make mistakes selling a part, but I'm talking about people who will intentionally lie in order to scam you. Most of them are still active on Carbine forums and still actively lying in public about their Inland with newly produced fake rear sight they claim as original because they've owned it x years, or maybe  it's their Rockola with flip sight staking but has an adjustable sight they claim is original. So, develop a relationship with a knowledgeable person but don't expect everything for nothing. Help them out finding what they are looking for too.

Last point: as a 7 yr-10 month accumulator, I keep encountering guys who claim XX years of experience and pretending that it means something. What we know is it means you bought stuff cheap way back and know when you're cheating someone. It doesn't mean that you are any better at spotting fake stuff, because when I notify a seller or collector that his rear sight is not USGI, I keep reading the same reply about how they've "been doing this since before you were born"---and they're still terrible at what they do because the part is 100% fake. Most of them know it's fake and are just lying, and they don't like you calling them out on it. That seller in Myrtle Beach said the same and then said most of the members of the old Carbine Club newsletter days could never spot real or fake parts either (does he know because he sold them those parts?). He accused me of being one of those guys. Ack-shoe-ally, no. I've only been active since 2011 and I think I owned 2 newletters back when that form of the club was active. Being wrong is typical of people who brag about how long they've been doing this.

I guess those guys don't realize how incompetent they sound bragging that way. It's like when I started drumming, I'd meet guys who would claim they've been drumming for 25 yrs!, saying it like an authority. And I'd think to myself that I've been drumming for 3 yrs and can do at least as much as they can do. And Jacob Armen at 7 years old was on the Tonight Show doing something most drummers never did (or will do) while proving it can be done in what, 5 years if he started drumming at 2 yrs old.


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 05 2019 at 9:28am
Originally posted by RClark9595 RClark9595 wrote:

by the way, who and how does a thread become marked educational is there some folder for this or what? Does an Admin. have some way to flag it as educational that the rest of us don't know about?


Threads can be marked as a "sticky" or what some called "pinned" if you look at the icons next to threads you will see the icon has a pushpin to designate it was "pinned"

This makes the post stay near the top of a section for anyone to easily find.

Hopefully new collectors doing their homework will not have to look further than the first topic in the general section to get some well learned advice.

As to on or off topic, New Year, new ways of doing things. I will leave it up to the OP (original poster) to decide if something in this thread is off topic.

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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: RClark9595
Date Posted: Jan 06 2019 at 6:03am
tenOCEE

Are these pictures of a carbine you own, if so, I think a lesson was learned here, if not, then someone got a lesson. Point being, buying my first Carbine was before I knew this club existed, and granted I wasn't to keen on digging for information those pictures could have been me. I bought almost strictly on impulse and emotion, I had the money, I trusted the seller, I wanted the gun. In hind sight, had I known about this club, I think I would have taken more time to learn, I wonder how many other club members bought their first Carbine ill-informed?
This thread is for the first time buyer, for me it will be a second time buyer and much wiser.
Thanks for all the info.


-------------
Ron

USAF 4535 CCTS
F4 Combat Crew Training
Vietnam era Vet.


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: Jan 06 2019 at 8:40am
That Carbine I showed pics of is what to look for. It came from seller fanrun and was advertised as a worn original. While most of my buys are at least satisfactory, that one you can judge if it was badly misrepresented without my opinion. Reproduction flip, prior bayonet band wear on barrel, huge divot behind rear sight from previous type III adjustable sight, etc. for over $1300. Sellers have learned you won't waste money sending one back at a certain price point. You already paid to have it shipped and transferred and it'll cost more to send it back AND risk if they'll refund your full payment. If you were already misled, the liklihood that they'll also do it on the buy-back is high. Being offered a buy-back at your expense after a seller's misrepresentation is an insult to injury. They'll behave as thought they're doing the right thing for not doing the right thing. Other buyers on this forum have parlayed their similar experience to me with that seller.

My first buy was an early Plainfield from a friend for way too much, but I was told prior to buying it that it was too high (350 in about 1993-4, which is like $600 today). It turned out to have a spectacular type II band that made it a decent buy 20+ yrs later. I wasn't into Carbines then. It was just a gun that was available close to me. 2011 is when I got into Carbines as a hobby after buying a Winchester spring tube mixmaster for $400 from a pawn shop (less than $500 today?).


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Jan 06 2019 at 9:33am
I don't have a problem with the way this thread is proceeding as to me it still seems there's valuable information still being posted. BTW, while I originally directed this thread towards first time M1 carbine buyers, although it's still relevant to those making additional carbine purchases since mistakes can be made with experience or as a novice.


Posted By: rustygun
Date Posted: Aug 06 2019 at 7:43pm
A Muzzle Erosion Gauge IS a very handy tool to have when shopping for your first M1 Carbine. However since it IS the hunt for your 1st Carbine you might not own one yet.

As mentioned earlier I use a rifle round and see how far the bullet slides into the barrel. The favored seems to be a .30-06 Springfield with Military 150gr FMJ. I use a 7.62x51 (.308) round with a 147gr FMJ Bullet.

The common argument of using those instead of an actual .30 Carbine round is the longer bullet profile of the pointed .30-06 or 7.62x52 shows the wear better. In other words... tiny changes in bore diameter result in greater movement of the bullet.

There is also the fact that dealers/sellers get a little nervous when they hand you a rifle and you pull a live round out of your pocket!

Here (To my great shame) is what happens when you get caught up in the fever of buying your 1st rifle and you DON'T take the proper precautions;




A rifle round not only drops loosely all the way to the case... there is room to "wobble" Not my finest moment. For those interested in the gory details, the bore diameter is .318" (A full 100th of an inch oversize)

To use as a reference at shows. I carry a round that I have spun by hand with light pressure into the muzzle of a NEW "3 52" Springfield Armory Barrel from a 2007 release CMP rifle. The resulting RING is a good enough guage for me. Be sure to hold cartridge square and steady while turning.





My 7.62x51 cartridge IS a dummy round. I show the seller the empty primer pocket just for good measure.


As for shooting, I can keep all the shots on a paper plate at 110yds (Usually)


Posted By: johnireland
Date Posted: Apr 23 2020 at 4:40pm
Such a good article and advice...really worth reading before you buy...and also after you buy. I hope people take advantage of its wisdom.


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Apr 26 2020 at 12:26pm
I can be a bad example of it myself, but patience is the key in today's marketplace. With saying that, I can't emphasize enough that a certain part or carbine itself that looks great today is almost certainly NOT the only item like it in the carbine universe and those other items will certainly come up for sale at some point in time, maybe even for less money and in better condition.



Posted By: 03manV
Date Posted: Apr 27 2020 at 11:42am
Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

I can be a bad example of it myself, but patience is the key in today's marketplace. With saying that, I can't emphasize enough that a certain part or carbine itself that looks great today is almost certainly NOT the only item like it in the carbine universe and those other items will certainly come up for sale at some point in time, maybe even for less money and in better condition.


And usually after you just "bought" one! or two! Wink

Patience is a virtue that will pay off in $$.

(Do as I suggest, not as I do.Confused)


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Don


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Apr 27 2020 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

I can be a bad example of it myself, but patience is the key in today's marketplace. With saying that, I can't emphasize enough that a certain part or carbine itself that looks great today is almost certainly NOT the only item like it in the carbine universe and those other items will certainly come up for sale at some point in time, maybe even for less money and in better condition.



And usually after you just "bought" one! or two! Wink

Patience is a virtue that will pay off in $$.

(Do as I suggest, not as I do.Confused)



Well, I do tend to practice what I suggest, but who's perfect?



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