S.G. Die errors
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URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1064
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Topic: S.G. Die errors
Posted By: Lupus Dei
Subject: S.G. Die errors
Date Posted: Dec 21 2015 at 8:22pm
Sometimes things go awry in mass production. Click Link Below
uploads/CCNLs/CC201610SGdieerror.pdf" rel="nofollow - Saginaw_Die_Error
January 2016-H
SAGINAW MARKING ERRORS REVISITED…. by Louis Losi
Newsletter 375 featured this photo of a SAGNAW marked carbine that Charlie Brickett had purchased from CMP. Note that there is no space for the letter I. How could this error have occurred, and how many carbines were marked this way before someone noticed?
I once owned a similarly marked SG carbine, but mine had a space for the letter I. That space is smooth, with no impression from a broken-off die.
A possible explanation for both of these errors would be that Saginaw used a stamping die made up of individual “type face” letters, that were clamped together in a jig, rather than a specially-manufactured one-piece die.
In the top example, the letter I was accidentally left out, or perhaps fell out before the letters were clamped into the jig. In the bottom example, the letter I was accidentally inserted into the jig bottom side up, leaving no impression when the jig was applied to the receiver. Those of us who are old enough to remember “Print Shop” in high school will recall the difficulty in handling the small pieces of type-face, and clamping them into dies. Note also that two different fonts were used in the marking of these two receivers. The letters S, G, N, and W are all slightly different.
Both of these errors would be easy to miss in poor light, with aging eyes, and possibly hidden by an adjustable rear sight. Readers, take a closer look at your carbines. Do you have any with marking errors?
Share your opinions, stories or pictures below related to Die Errors
------------- Louis Dey Admin www.uscarbinecal30.com/forums
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Replies:
Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 03 2016 at 12:25pm
Posted By: David Albert
Date Posted: Feb 12 2016 at 5:25pm
Lupus Dei wrote:
Sometimes things go awry in mass production. Click Link Below
A possible explanation for both of these errors would be that Saginaw used a stamping die made up of individual “type face” letters, that were clamped together in a jig, rather than a specially-manufactured one-piece die.
In the top example, the letter I was accidentally left out, or perhaps fell out before the letters were clamped into the jig. In the bottom example, the letter I was accidentally inserted into the jig bottom side up, leaving no impression when the jig was applied to the receiver. Those of us who are old enough to remember “Print Shop” in high school will recall the difficulty in handling the small pieces of type-face, and clamping them into dies. Note also that two different fonts were used in the marking of these two receivers. The letters S, G, N, and W are all slightly different.
Both of these errors would be easy to miss in poor light, with aging eyes, and possibly hidden by an adjustable rear sight. Readers, take a closer look at your carbines. Do you have any with marking errors?
Share your opinions, stories or pictures below related to Die Errors
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This is a very interesting topic to me, because I've been involved over the past several years with gathering many original production gages associated with the Thompson Submachine Gun, and helped present a 2013 lecture on Thompson tools and gages, which included some roll marking dies. All the marking dies I've personally seen for firearms have been of the type that are solid, rolling wheels with the markings embossed on them.
That said, I do agree with Lupus Dei's statement above, and I searched for the type of marking die he mentioned. Here is a picture of what the Saginaw marking die may have looked like.
David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
------------- NRA Life Member Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout
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Posted By: Marty Black
Date Posted: Feb 12 2016 at 6:30pm
That's great, David! That's certainly what my "mind's eye" has envisioned all these years, trying to understand marking errors. Too bad we have never found a photo of a carbine receiver marking machine. Maybe one will show up in a book someday. And our thanks to Louis Losi, who supplied the photos and information for the article on SG's marking errors.
And thanks for your strong support of the Forum, David!
Regards, Marty Black
------------- Marty Black
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