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Please help with a carbine purchase

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killerv View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote killerv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Please help with a carbine purchase
    Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 7:21am
Been wanting one for awhile, watching them on  GB, etc, trying to learn what I can. Anyway, I ran across a couple locally.

One is an underwood, underwood barrel, receiver, trigger guard marked, it has a replacement PJ stock with what appears to be an O or 0 stamped on bottom of pistol grip. Has bayonet lug, the 2nd model rear sight. Has push button safety, the safety and trigger are black, I am assuming some kind of replacement. No mag. Looks in honest shape, not abused. Hairline crack in stock at recoil plate. I haven't requested to break it down yet, what are any issues at first glance from what I mentioned above.I'll check the bore if I plan to pursue this gun any further. They are asking 1200, but I'm sure I could talk them down some. 

They also have a winchester, flip sight no bayonet lug, but it appears to have a replacement stock, no marking at all on stock and stock is just in too good of condition, it's marked 1600 but been sitting awhile. 

Any help, advise appreciated. I'm wanting to get into one of these things, want one I can shoot, but possibly trade or purchase up when I find a better one. I could wait of course but then I wouldn't be enjoying a M1 carbine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 8:43am
Based on what information you have posted, sounds like both carbines are priced too high.....by several hundreds of $$. Replacement stocks, cracks of any kind, adjustable sights and mismatched finishes are rebuild and mixmaster red flags. Nothing at all wrong with mixmasters, but they have to be something special to warrant a price of 1K-plus. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 9:36am
And reproduction parts are very common on Carbines, so that flip on the Win could more than likely be a repop. You have to post pics. Deals are definitely out there. Someone once tipped me to an early Win someone bubba'd, and the finder didn't want it. It was an original early Win with altered sights like GIs were known to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cali201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 11:25am
Yes, both sound overpriced by several hundred dead presidents. Not knowing much about them and buying from someone who also knows little can be a tricky road. if you are looking for a shooter and not worried about originality or collectability then you should very well be able to find one in the $800-$1000 range depending on condition. Import marked ones may be a way to go as they sell for a tad less.

Edited by cali201 - Nov 12 2019 at 4:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cali201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 11:28am
...oops
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 12:01pm
A buyer can get a much better deal on Gunbroker if he's active and patient with some guidance from an experienced member here or on Milsurps. Much, much better. A buyer can find a nice looking shooter for 800 with ease. Heck a Rockola sold locally for 850 at a show this month. I won an M1A1 for 1100 bid on an online auction, which made it 1340 after fees and shipping.


Edited by tenOCEE - Nov 12 2019 at 5:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cali201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 12:18pm
Surprised to hear that about Roger but then again I have no frequented the carbine forums too much in the past year, guess things change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 12:27pm
It's like buying a car from a dealer and buying from a private seller difference. Carbine people know the values and would like to see them so they hold out. Ordinary sellers don't know what makes one worth more than the other. Hence the $850 Rockola with orig barrel and trigger housing and the $1340 M1A1. Those would sell for $1000 and $1700 on CMP.

Oh, A year and a half ago an original S'G' sold for $729 buy it now in GB. The same month on one of the auctions that had online bidding an original flip sight NPM with wrong stock sold for 750. I posted pics of it here asking questions for the seller and it's gorgeous. Same bidder won a 7 million Winchester with wrong barrel for the same money. Heck, folk_fan won 2 Carbines together (one an IP) for 2000 in Sept or Aug. He just sold the IP alone for 1625 on GB last week.


Edited by tenOCEE - Nov 12 2019 at 5:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 12:38pm
Some of these sellers get carried away riding the carbine mania. You can grab a decent shooter off gunpoker for $800 and less. Preferably, purchase one that offers a right-to-return and if you get a real dog, send it back and consider the cost and trouble as education.

Based on my observations, comparing the asking prices on the “major” auction sites, gunbroker listings are generally more realistic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote killerv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 1:36pm
On some recent watched carbines on BG, I've seen some mostly correct (what I know as correct at this point) winchesters bring between 1200-1500 bucks. The 1500 one had the CMP certificate. A blue sky imported winchester that was super clean only went for 925ish. Bidding stopped on a correct underwood at 1000, and it appeared to certainly be more desirable than the one I'm looking at. It didn't sale,but gives you an idea of what folks are wiling to pay for it. Anyway, I'm certainly enjoying the education involved and the hunt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 1:52pm
When you watch enough auctions and look at the bidders and winners you will become familiar with the names you see. So when you see one with very high prices, but the bidders don't look familiar and some have almost no feedbacks, it's faked up.

Plug this number below into gunbroker and then look at the bidders. I don't recognize anyone above 600 dollars, but I'm not saying they are all fake. Maybe others recognize some of them. 842008621

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 2:20pm
KillerV,
Keep in mind that sometimes on the auction sites you'll see a Carbine go for much more than you'd expect it to..... compared to other makers in similar configuration.
Could be an example of Collectors over paying to fill a hole in their collection.
Could also be some shill bidding going on.
Also look for Newly listed 'Buy It Now' deals.... "First Dog On The Bone" my Father would say Smile

For sites like GB use the Advanced search mode for sold/completed auctions to get a ball park idea of going prices. I can tell you that location does play a roll in cost.
There are also sellers to steer clear of...... 

Don't overlook running a WTB add on the forums. Many have them they'll sell but don't care for going the Auction route.

BTW: One of my best shooters is a Import with all the post War updates. 

 Good Luck and Welcome to the Forum,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2019 at 2:54pm
GB842008621

I don't recognize that Ordnance stamp.
Appears to be a Triple dribble fake a roo.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdr1953 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2019 at 10:31pm
i'm also looking at a first buy. can you think of any explanation for a 1945 Inland having a 1943 Marlin barrel? thanks for your time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jt22453 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2019 at 10:57pm
Replacement barrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdr1953 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2019 at 11:02pm
would that make it what they call a mixmaster and/or less valuable? thanks for your input
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jt22453 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2019 at 11:34pm
Inland produced their own barrels so I would expect an Inland receiver to be matched with an Inland barrel. There may be instances where that is not the case but someone more knowledgeable than I am would have to chime in. I usually expect a carbine to be a mixmaster unless proven otherwise with a part by part rundown or breaking it down myself. Many people suggest it is one thing but don’t really know what they are talking about. Such as last week when a gun store employee told me his Winchester carbine had an international harvester hammer. I told him intl. harvester did not make carbine parts and he informed me it had an IH so he must be right. I just said he was wrong and walked out. Not worth it if he is going to be right no matter what. Is everything else Inland? Has the carbine been rebuilt?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdr1953 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 20 2019 at 11:46pm
i really don't know if it's been rebuilt. i have a Garand from CMP but i'm completely new the m1 carbine. i'm now regretting all of this. i did purchase from a gun store but your remarks (about gun store employee) don't make me very confident about my purchase. i'm going to break it down tomorrow and try to see if i totally screwed up. but already i think i'm in trouble. Marlin barrel, IBM rear sight, and not much else matching my "parts list" for my serial # according to the uscarbinecal30 site. i will post photos to this thread tomorrow. hopefully not a $1k lesson...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jt22453 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 21 2019 at 12:13am
Just because it is not all matching does not make it bad. Most carbines are mixmasters or have been corrected. All parts are interchangeable between the prime contractors. That’s part of what is so neat about them. Post pictures and the guys on here will be able to tell you what you have . Yeah, carbines can be difficult because there are many fake parts and misinformation out there. They are fun to shoot and I enjoy the minutiae of it all. The different markings from subcontractors on top of the 11 prime contractors can be fun and maddening because there is so much info to wade through. Don’t be discouraged. That was just some idiot I had to deal with. This forum can help with all of that if you utilize it. Good luck to you and I hope to see your pictures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 21 2019 at 5:51am
Good mornin'.  Don't despair as you are not alone.  Most of us have been down this road and on occasion slip back on it.  As stated above mixmasters are the norm since most carbines went though a rearsenal and no armorer cared about matching manufacturer parts.  Nothing wrong with a mixmaster.  My CMP carbine from 2016 is comprised of no less than 7 different manufacturers plus the general post-war upgrade parts.  I'm thinking it was assembled on the bench in Anniston.  Post your pics and let the folks here help you out. Ya never know there may be a unique or rare part in the mix.   
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