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Original C-tip slings?

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RedSpecial View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr 14 2017 at 7:31pm
I was wondering what the consensus would be on these three C-tip slings, regarding if they are original or reproduction. I bought the khaki sling several years ago off eBay (believe I paid $30) and the other two green ones were given to me. The top sling, the lighter green one is missing the keeper. The other two slings' keeper almost look blued and have a "M" in a circle. They all say "KLIKIT (star) PULL", on the khaki sling and the darker green sling you can make out text in the back of the female snap but I can't see it in the third sling, but it could be there. Looks like it says "RAUFASTNER CO. PROVIDENCE RI"

Thoughts?








-Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2017 at 10:01pm
Don't know slings well enough but will point out that W in oval on keeper is trademark of Waterbury Buckle. They were around during war but did not have any carbine contracts that we know of
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rcycles45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2017 at 8:00am
I'm going to vote that these are post war or reproduction . If you look at the weave pattern you will see it is not consistent through out the sling . The outer weave changes as if its a border weave which is not consistent with USGI slings .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedSpecial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2017 at 11:36am
I posted the khaki sling a long time ago on I think the CMP board, and two people responded, but the first thing they both said is that they were not experts but thought they were real.

Their reasoning included:
1. The boarder being a different weave than the center, that would cost too much money for a repro place to produce
2. That piece of metal that folds over to hold the female snap in place on reproductions is usually flimsy metal that is easy to bend
3. That "RAUFASTNER" mark is scene on lots of web gear of WWII vintage (which I compared it to Garand belts and other web gear I have and they do have the same markings)
4. That the fastener is beveled down into the sling rather than just flush into it to prevent it from catching on stuff, another detail that they wouldn't likely do on a repro.

That being said, I've always felt that these slings were too nice, so that was my first red flag. So things I've noticed:

1. The C-tip is a 'skinnier' C, if that makes since than compared to other C-tip slings that I know are original pieces.
2. The metal looks blued, rather than parked.
3. If you look at the pictures the female snaps don't match up perfectly with each other, I would think period pieces would be pretty spot on (how ever, their lengths are consistent). The male half of the snaps do line up wifh each other
4. Again, comparing it to known vintage WWII pieces, these slings say "KLIKIT * PULL" vs. the WWII pieces all are unmarked and just have a dot or dimple on them.

Regarding the two green slings that were given to me, they weren't given to me because someone 'didn't want them'... exactly. Someone I work with who knows someone who knows someone... etc. her husband passed away. He had a large collection of WWII stuff so I was put in contact with her and she gave it all to me. The lot included helmets, bayonets, knives, web gear etc., most of it was original but about half of the web gear was reproduction. But again, comparing the stuff that I know is reproduction to these slings there's a vast quality difference (repro stuff includes Garand belts, suspenders, musette bags, etc.) in the areas of the snaps used, the material of the cloth and so on.
-Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedSpecial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2017 at 3:03pm
Because I love to beat things to death, here are some pictures of original World War II items and reproductions for comparison.

Originals, this are marked identical to the slings above with "KLIKIT * PULL" and the "RAUFASTNER CO." on the back. The one is a five cell thompson magazine pouch and the other is a World War I cavalry cartridge belt that they added an extra pocket to for service during World War II (the belt and all but one pocket is khaki/tan and dated 1918, the other pocket is dark OD). I also have a Thompson magazine pouch for the 30-round magazines made by Boyt (I believe it's marked 43) and the shoulder strap has the same webbing pattern, if you want a picture of that I can take that too.




These are reproductions, they are much cheaper metal, the tabs on the back are easy to bend and they are flush to the webbing rather than beveled down. They also seem painted rather than blackened.




-Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2017 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by RedSpecial RedSpecial wrote:

I also have a Thompson magazine pouch for the 30-round magazines made by Boyt (I believe it's marked 43) and the shoulder strap has the same webbing pattern, if you want a picture of that I can take that too.



I'd like to see the magazine pouch.

What is the light khaki colored item in the last photos?

David Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedSpecial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2017 at 11:23am
In the last two photos the lighter one is a reproduction shotgun shell pouch and the green one is a reproduction Thompson pouch.

The one that you asked for, I believe it's for holding six XXX magazines. Marked "BOYT -42-"




-Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2017 at 1:42pm
RedSpecial,

Thanks for sharing the photo. I have a couple of the magazine pouches myself. Here is a link to the various known makers of this item on my Thompson website.

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10090

I figured the light khaki colored item was a repro.

Thanks!

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedSpecial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2017 at 2:43pm
David,

I'm very familiar with that website, I'm on there and go by 'kilroy'. I've thought about asking you to change my username for consistency but I had an issue when I was trying to sell a car once and the guy googled my user name and knew every detail about my life. Then when he was buying the car started asking me about stuff in my safe. After that I started varying my username from site to site
-Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 16 2017 at 6:13pm
RedSpecial,

Yes, I've interacted with you many times on Machinegunboards. Thanks for letting me know who you are. I understand about different names on different forums.

Thanks,

David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedSpecial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2017 at 4:01pm
I'm currently reading all the CCNL's and just finished this one. Looks like #222 mentions slings like this. I don't know if my reading comprehension is poor or if it's unclear whether the slings are fake, or if it's just the tags that were associated with them were fake.
-Neil
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