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New from Indiana

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Gregorius View Drop Down
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    Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 11:05am
Greetings from Indiana,
My name is Greg and I have been lurking and learning on this forum for some time to find out info on my Winchester M1 Bavarian Carbine this is what I have found out so far;


I have a Winchester M1 Carbine Ser #5620xxx that was used in the Bavaria Rural Police, then sent to Württemberg-Baden Landespolizei with a WB-LP-21137 stamped on the trigger guard.  It still has a type 2 barrel band, flat bolt, flip type rear sight, and push button safety.
    It has a winchester receiver, barrel, and trigger group, but an IBM (AOB) slide and NPM safety, a birch stock, with a two rivet handguard that is marked IO. It is a century arms import, no date on the barrel. Should I look for a Winchester stock, or leave it alone? I bought this about 30 yrs ago from a co-worker for $50.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Greg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMTmonoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 11:34am
Hey Greg....welcome from Alabama.  
I love the Bavarian carbines, and think they are some of the most authentic carbines around. 
I don't correct, or restore so my opinion is to only ever replace a broken part preventing a carbine from otherwise working correctly.  I think your carbine is perfect as is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 11:35am
50-bucks. I’d say that you have a lot of room left b4 you invest more than it’s worth!

The thing that would drag-down the value a bit in a collectors eye is the import mark. You could invest 10 times what you paid for it and still be under-the-money value wise. You have the convience to pretty much do what you want and still NOT be considered foolish.😁
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 12:11pm
Welcome to the forum, Greg. Sounds like you have a nice carbine despite the import mark. Totally your decision on swapping the stock out for a Winchester, if you do decide to look for a Winchester stock then I suggest you keep an eye out on whatacountry.com, they get some pretty good stocks and sell them for decent prices.
https://whatacountry.com/stocks-m1-carbine.aspx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 12:13pm
Welcome to the forum.  I assume you've perused the bavarianm1carbines.com page.  As for import marks they aren't pretty but most carbines were "imported" back to the US. Just a matter of when and by who if they missed getting stamped.  I figure the stamp proves it was really over there. If it is how it was issued in Bavaria then I wouldn't do a thing to it.  I can't believe no one has asked for you to post some pics.  That would help in your request.  Good chance Jim and some others will see your post and provide some words of wisdom.  

Again, welcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregorius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 1:24pm
Here are a few pics if they will load.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 1:48pm
Greg, someone put your rear sight on backwards.
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 1:49pm
Is the stock numbered to the carbine or marked in any way? If so part of its history. 
Some pay more for the Bavarians due to its history.
Think of it this way, the carbine served and stayed overseas. If it was returned in an unaltered condition it is a testament to how it was.
Naturally, it is possible that the imported combined parts to make complete carbines.

I would recommend reading the bavarian pages and look in carbines of the collector section as well as general discussion and parts markings sections for similar posts.

Welcome to the forums!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old59porsche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 1:50pm
Nice looking Winchester. I guess you know that the rear sight is on backwards. The flat side of the leaf should be toward the eye when aiming. Check to see if the rear sight has a "s" on one side, that should be on the left side of the sight as the carbine faces away from you. If the "s" is on the left, then somebody has turned the leaf (aperture) around by removing the pin in the sight, perhaps to replace the flat spring that holds the leaf in position.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregorius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Greg, someone put your rear sight on backwards.
It just shows how much I know, It's been that way for 30 yrs. I guess it's time to drift it out and reverse it.   Big smile

Thanks,
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregorius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by old59porsche old59porsche wrote:

Nice looking Winchester. I guess you know that the rear sight is on backwards. The flat side of the leaf should be toward the eye when aiming. Check to see if the rear sight has a "s" on one side, that should be on the left side of the sight as the carbine faces away from you. If the "s" is on the left, then somebody has turned the leaf (aperture) around by removing the pin in the sight, perhaps to replace the flat spring that holds the leaf in position.  




The S is on the right side, it's on backwards.
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Gregorius Gregorius wrote:

I guess it's time to drift it out and reverse it.


Be careful with that, I suggest using the proper rear sight tool. Also the sight is removed from left to right and installed from right to left.
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregorius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Originally posted by Gregorius Gregorius wrote:

I guess it's time to drift it out and reverse it.


Be careful with that, I suggest using the proper rear sight tool. Also the sight is removed from left to right and installed from right to left.

Thanks for the info, I have a nylon block to put on the sight and a brass gunsmith hammer to hit the nylon block with.
Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 2:32pm
Greg,

Welcome Aboard!

That is a very nice looking Bavarian.  $50!!  I paid more than that for my bolt assembly tool. Cry

Happy New Year!
Semper Fi, Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2018 at 11:10pm
Welcome to the forum. I like it just the way it is. Perhaps the Germans reversed the sight? No way to know for sure, but I've never seen the markings on the trigger housing. Will need to do some reading on Jim's Bavarian site. Thanks for sharing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2019 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by Gregorius Gregorius wrote:

Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Originally posted by Gregorius Gregorius wrote:

I guess it's time to drift it out and reverse it.


Be careful with that, I suggest using the proper rear sight tool. Also the sight is removed from left to right and installed from right to left.


Thanks for the info, I have a nylon block to put on the sight and a brass gunsmith hammer to hit the nylon block with.
Thanks



That is a really nice carbine. You could just leave the sight that way as part of its history. I have seen some horror posts about chunks of the dovetail chipping off during removal. Most likely it won't happen to you, but ya never know. One nice thing about a rear sight removal tool, it puts slow steady pressure at the right spot on the sight to minimize the risk of damage. Matrix makes a good one at a fair price. If you do reverse it, if it's loose during reinstall Loctite retaining compound does a nice practically invisible job securing it in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gregorius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 09 2019 at 6:58pm
Greetings Gentlemen,
Sorry it took so long to check back in, work has been hectic. Thanks to all that replied, the depth of knowledge on this forum is amazing. I will leave it alone for now, the sight has been that way for at least 30 yrs, why change it now.

Regards,
Greg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2019 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by Gregorius Gregorius wrote:

Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Greg, someone put your rear sight on backwards.

It just shows how much I know, It's been that way for 30 yrs. I guess it's time to drift it out and reverse it.   Big smile

Thanks,
Greg



I'm a little late to this conversation, but while I agree that your sight is installed backwards, it might have been installed that way originally. You may want to leave it like it is. This is where manuals and other supportive documentation can get really interesting.

Here is a link to a post on the subject from 2011.

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13137

There are at least 4 official WWII era reference sources where the rear flip sight on an M1 Carbine is shown installed backwards. The first is USMC filmstrip "TFS-6," covering "Nomenclature of the U.S. Carbine, Caliber .30, M1." I have this filmstrip in my collection, and it is available for download at the preceding link. The rear sight on page 10 of the filmstrip is installed backwards.

FM 23-7, dated May 20, 1942, p. 2 (and arguably the line drawing on p.3), and TB 23-7-1, dated March 17, 1942, pp. 24-27, both show the taper of the aperture toward the shooter's eye. (Backwards) Incidentally, TB 23-7-1 also shows the rear sight installed correctly on page 5, on Inland M1 Carbine serial #18. It appears that the same Carbine has the sight installed incorrectly on pp. 26-27. I am not 100% certain it's the same serial number Carbine, but if it's not Inland serial #18, it's #15 or #16. Anyway, inconsistency is demonstrated within the same manual.

Inconsistency is also shown in a "Base Shop Data - Small Arms" manual prepared by Rock Island Arsenal "For Distribution to the British Forces by British Army Staff, North America, October, 1943." (Rare manual) In the "Dismantling" section, sheet 6 of 8 appears to show the rear sight backwards in the "Dismantling of Barrel and Removal of Rear Sight" section. Later on that same page, it describes how to disassemble the rear flip sight to its component parts, and shows the sight in its correct orientation, even though it is disassembled. These are line drawings, rather than photos, as with the aforementioned FM and TB examples.

In TM 9-1276, dated 5 June 1943, the taper of the flip sight aperture faces out, in the correct orientation, which appears to be the earliest, correct reference. The sight was later phased out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2019 at 11:03pm
David, enjoyed the USMC film strip thanks for posting that link.
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