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My PMC M1 Carbine |
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Em-one-car-bean
Recruit Joined: Jan 07 2017 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Posted: Jan 09 2017 at 7:20pm |
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My father has an old Rock-Ola carbine that he inherited from
his father and I used to love shooting it as a kid. Long story short I recently
purchased a used M1 Carbine from "gun mart" for $250 which I believed
to be a good deal. Well I cleaned it and went to shoot it and sure enough it
did not work properly, with only a few rounds out of one 15 round clip cycling
properly. Since the gun had a 30 day warranty I immediately took it back. They
said they could refund me the money or send it off to be "repaired".
Me being fond of Carbines opted to send it in for repair. Fast forward 5 months
(yes, they had my gun for 5 fricken months) and I finally got it back. The guy
who worked on it told me that the barrel was completely shot out and the
headspace was dangerous, so they replaced the barrel with a new one that he
said was "mil spec" and that it had to be milled slightly to fit for
some reason but didn't elaborate much. Basically I gave them a loan of 250
dollars for 5 months and got a carbine with a brand new barrel at no cost to me
which I am kind of okay with. I took it out to shoot it and it worked just fine
to my relief.
I have no information or history on this gun but I am under the impression that it is probably a mixture of parts. I was wondering if anyone of you could offer me some more information on it. It is marked "PMC" (Plainfield Machine Co. ?) under the rear sight below the serial number. The serial number they sold it with is "11222X" but unfortunately the stamp job is crap and it could be one of several different numbers (see attached pic). On the left side of the receiver there is also an oval stamp that probably had 4 numbers but a hole was drilled through the receiver for some reason, maybe related to the selector switch? All I can make out is "83" and maybe the very top pieces of 2 other numbers right above the hole. Barrel: New, marked "CBI" Old barrel: Unknown but looked old and had a fair amount of pitting on the outside. I know I should have asked to keep it but it didn't cross my mind until it was too late. Stock: Unmarked as far as I can tell but has selector switch cutout Trigger housing: Marked "ST" which I understand to be Standard Products? Barrel Band: Marked "U" possibly Inland or NPM? Carry Strap Swivel: Marked "UN" Slide: Marked "D-7161843-7 over HSA" which I understand to be Winchester? Rear Sight: Milled adjustable, marked "H in shield" for Standard Products/Winchester/IBM/Rock-Ola? Front Sight: Marked "SN" for Standard Products? Butt plate: Unmarked Two 15 round mags with it: "R-O" and "IS" for Rock-Ola and International Silver? If anyone has any information/age/possible value on the Carbine I would greatly appreciate it Also if anyone knows how to post pictures I am having trouble because mine are too large! |
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Em-one-car-bean
Recruit Joined: Jan 07 2017 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Charles
Grunt Joined: Mar 21 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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That is a type11 fabricated trigger housing used on STD, mid January of 1944.
I'll pass on more info as I find it. |
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Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg. 29th. Divi. 4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired Life member NRA |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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Welcome to the forum, you found the right place to ask questions. Where did you come to understand HSA slide was Winchester? your receiver was drilled most likely to pin the other barrel in place. your R-O mag was made for Rockola by Owens Illinois Can Company. sure your IS is not SI? there is a SN front sight and a NS marked sight. is your front sight milled or brazed from two pieces? Band if original with swivel most likely off a NPM now back to your slide. It is believed to be made by High Standard Manufacturing aka High Standard Inc. As far as I know we have never found a contract that specifies HSA or a HSA slide in the wrap to confirm. We do know High Standard made slide for as a post war contract but used a ID number rather than letters. Buckle your seatbelt and enjoy the ride
Charles, you may be confusing they trigger housings marked BE-B made by Talon inc that were sent to Standard Products in January 1944 the ST trigger housing also made by Talon Inc can be seen on Standard Product Carbines in the fall of 1943 mixed with the type 3 trigger housing till the end of production. |
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Em-one-car-bean
Recruit Joined: Jan 07 2017 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Here is some additional information:
The other magazine is definitely "IS" The front sight is definitely "SN" if you are looking from the back of the gun as if you were holding it, if you were to point the gun at yourself it would read "NS". I don't know how to tell the difference between brazed/milled but it looks milled. Upon closer inspection there is also another "NS" tucked partly under the middle sight post which reads that way from the rear or reads "SN" if looking down the barrel. The buttplate has two vertically aligned screws and no writing. I got the slide as winchester from a parts list on another M1 Forum, but that was based only on the number on it and not the lettering. Here is that parts list: http://m1family.com/topic46.html I can provide more pictures if needed to aid in ID. |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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front sight is a type two, based on the double stamp. they stamped both sides so when assembled you would see one of the two marks. Click on the top banner which brings you to the web pages. Menu on left side choose parts. look for the correct group and enjoy the reading. looking at page 5 of the link provided for PMC we see they started using their own buttplates in 1966 The M1 family site I believe parrots early Reisch book. which has its errors, on slides: 7160091 is a number meant to signify that it has increased dwell (see parts pages) Seen mostly on Inland and late Winchester. others have been see with these numbers7161843 means it has the cut for use with a M2 but functions fine in the M1 many slides were "Updated" for use with M2 and do not necessarily have the numbers there were several made under post war contracts for M2 use.
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cali201
Grunt Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 198 |
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Plainfields are considered, by some,to be the best commercial carbines produced, even sold to foreign governments. Interesting side note:
I was born in Plainfield, NJ, the Plainfield carbine was made at the Plainfield Machine Company just outside the city. In July of 1967 as the race riots were going on in nearby Newark riots started in Plainfield on the 14th. The next night a police officer was killed (mostly beaten to death with shopping carts by a crowd) but also shot with his own gun. That same night the Plainfield Machine Shop was broken into and 46 M1 Carbines were stolen. Over the next few days the police, national guard went house to house trying to find the weapons that had been passed out to people. If I remember correctly they only found a few, so I never knew what happened to the bulk of them. It was during the summer and my brother was working at a swim club, so each day we had to drive thru Plainfield (we lived in the next town, North Plainfield). We had to pass thru about 4 different National Guard check points to get there. One night during the riots (curfew was in effect) a family had come home from vacation, did not know what was going on and when the NG tried to stop them they kept going, they machine gunned the car until it stopped, but did not injure anyone. |
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Em-one-car-bean
Recruit Joined: Jan 07 2017 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Thanks for all the awesome answers and history everyone! I think I am just going to enjoy this as a plinking rifle since it doesn't seem to be too valuable, plus I got a new barrel which I doubt I will ever wear out. I am glad I joined this forum, in addition to the website I think this is the best place to look for answers. For viewing pleasure I will post some pictures of my dads Rock-Ola carbine next time I go see him.
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