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My Bavarian Carbine

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BER911 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 1:33pm
Yesterday afternoon, I picked up my "new" Bavarian Carbine.  It is a NPM M1 Carbine that was issued to the Bavarian Rural Police after the war ended.  Subsequently, Germany transferred it to Austrian Gendarmerie in Upper Austria.  I assume it was one of the first transfers to the Gendarmerie because it has a low serial number on the trigger guard...0112.

At some point, the Austrian government transferred this Carbine back to the US Army.  The US Army, in or about 2008, transferred my Carbine to the CMP.  The previous owner bought this Carbine from the CMP in 2009.  The previous owner had only opened the CMP box once or twice and that is where the Carbine remained until yesterday.

The Carbine is in very good shape, but it was very dry.  I have field stripped it this morning and am in the process of photographing all marks and will clean, oil and grease it this afternoon.

Please bear with me as I am new to Carbine collecting.

A couple initial observations:
1) Based on the serial number, it is a Nat'l. Postal Meter Carbine.  It appears someone tried to remove the NPM stamp behind the rear sight.  It has an IBM barrel.
2) The stock has been sanded to remove all marks/cartouches.  The only visible marks are in the rear sling opening; the last 4 digits of the serial number are stamped into the wood.  There is also the name "TRIMBLE TN"; I assume this is who made the stock.
3) It appears the stock has had a coat of shellac applied to the wood (probably after sanding off all the marks).
4) It has original flip sights and no bayonet lug.  There are no rebuild marks.
5) There are no Importer markers which is consistent with the Carbine being returned to the US by the US Government (Army??).
6) The Carbine came to me in the original CMP padded cardboard box.  Including all the documentation and tags that accompanied it when sold in 2009.

I read the entire section on the Bavarian Carbines last night...a lot of information!  I'll read it again after I finish inspecting and cleaning the Carbine.

Here are a few preliminary photos:














Semper Fi, Bruce
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W5USMC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 1:53pm
Very nice, more pics. And yes Trimble is who made the stocks for NPM.
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BER911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 7:17pm
Finished the inspection and cleaning.  No problems that I can see and everything functioned properly.

Here are pictures I took during after disassembly.


Semper Fi, Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 7:35pm
Good pictures, thanks for posting. I am pretty sure that oiler may be a fake. I'll make one suggestion, if you plan on shooting this carbine a lot, get a spare bolt, it seems that the N14 bolts are prone to breakage at a higher rate than other bolts.
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BER911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 7:39pm
Thanks Wayne for the tip on the N14 bolt.

I'll try and source another bolt.  Any suggestions of where I should look for one.

Thanks!
Semper Fi, Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watchdog49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 8:06pm
What a cool rifle! Really my favorite carbines are the ones that have a story, a history you can see, and this one certainly does. Thanks for sharing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by BER911 BER911 wrote:

Thanks Wayne for the tip on the N14 bolt.

I'll try and source another bolt.  Any suggestions of where I should look for one.


You can get a complete spare bolt pretty much anywhere, ebay, numrich, northridge, seller 81mm on gunbroker has some and he is legit as they come. FYI here is and old thread about the N14 bolts. Also when switching out bolts, it is always a good idea to check the headspace, the "field gauge" is really the only one needed for this purpose.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/anyone-seen-a-m1-caarbine-bolt-get-shatttered_topic3154_post20349.html?KW=N14#20349
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BER911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2018 at 11:04pm
Many thanks guys!

Semper Fi, Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMTmonoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 12:37am
Cool rifle, and thanks for sharing all the informative pictures. I was close to buying a Bavarian last weekend that came with a CMP certificate. If it had an original flip sight like yours appears to have, it would have most likely been the difference maker.

I like how many of the Bavarians I've seen thus far retain type 2 bands, and flip sights. Also really like the unique finish I've seen on most.

Congrats on your awesome new carbine.
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BER911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 1:04pm
Did some research on the N14 bolt.  Even though conclusions about the weakness of the bolt appear inconclusive, there have been enough reported failures to cause me concern.  Having a bolt come apart right in front of my face does not sound like fun!
 
I bought the Bavarian Carbine primarily as a collection piece.  Shooting it would be fun, but not a necessity.  Finding a spare bolt does not appear to be a big deal, but checking the headspace looks to be way above my pay grade and would therefore require the services of an armor.
 
I am fortunate to also have my Rock-Ola which is an excellent shooter.  So for now, I will be content to enjoy both my carbines; one as a shooter and the other as a collection piece.
 
I truly appreciate all the honest feedback and assistance.  This discussion forum is a great resource for any carbine owner!
 
Semper Fi, Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by BER911 BER911 wrote:

but checking the headspace looks to be way above my pay grade and would therefore require the services of an armor.


With the correct brand gauges (Forster) checking the headspace is as simple as putting the gauge in the chamber and pushing the bolt forward to see if it closes all the way with the gauge in place. It is very simple, no armorer needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 3:23pm
Different agencies did things differently. Sometimes  we see the rear of receiver polished with name very hard to see or completely removed, others little to no buffing.
Many stocks and carbines had all US markings removed on the carbines to Germany/Austria.
Some when being returned had the agency on receiver removed. Others were removed by they owner. In doing so removed history that shows where the carbine served.

The Leather sling I believe was only Austria. Being that the sling was thicker the oiler would not fit.
Their fix was a piece of plastic.



It is possible that wood dowels were used. When the CMP brought in leather slings everyone was cutting pieces of dowel to use.

The number on the bottom of trigger housing is something like an agency rack or inventory number. Look at the back of housing by the lug that goes into receiver. You may have partial serial there.

As to the bolt, I have seen many, many N14 bolts. I have seen more reports of broken N14 than others but the sample side is very low. Coincidence or fact yet to be determined.
With that it served in the war and then with Rural Police. I am sure it has passed the fire test. If shooting heavy I would say to learn where the crack forms and inspect it frequently.

BTW please take notice how he used a flashlight to take pictures of things like the slide marks. Excellent way to pick up the markings!

As to the butt plate, really need a straight on picture to see who made them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 4:01pm
N14 bolts are for looking at and not shooting. Chalk me up as another participant in N14 failures. Just grab another bolt, preferably round, and use your internals. If you have not been introduced to a bolt-tool, now is the time to consider one.

Also, head space can be checked without the gauge. There are various threads out there to explain the process. Save your gauge money and purchase the bolt tool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 10 2018 at 10:06am
Ok guys...ordered some Forster Headspace gauges and a USGI Bolt Tool.

Next, I will look for a spare bolt just in case I do want to shoot the Bavarian.

Question - The NPM Bavarian Carbine came with a flat topped bolt.  Should I use another flat bolt, or will a round bolt also work in my carbine?

Thanks.
Semper Fi, Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 10 2018 at 10:52am
Bruce,

Rather than buying an extra bolt just switch with your Rock-Ola shooter on the few occasions you might wish to shoot the Bavarian. FWIW, I have verified that all my bolts are interchangeable in all my carbines and headspace correctly, even the Universal, just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 10 2018 at 11:53am
Originally posted by BER911 BER911 wrote:

 Should I use another flat bolt, or will a round bolt also work in my carbine?


Either bolt will work, but as jackp said you can just use the bolt from your other carbine if you don't want to spend the money on another bolt. With that said, a spare bolt is always a good thing to have on hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 10 2018 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by jackp1028 jackp1028 wrote:

Bruce,

Rather than buying an extra bolt just switch with your Rock-Ola shooter on the few occasions you might wish to shoot the Bavarian.

Thanks Jackp!  Very good idea, since I will rarely be shooting the Bavarian.

I do like Wayne's idea of having an extra bolt...just in case.  There is no rush, but I will keep my eyes open for a nice one.
Semper Fi, Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 10 2018 at 2:28pm
Bolts are not hard to find if you look in the right places. One can find loaded ones in the $75-$100 range and stripped $50-$75 round and flat. Post war contracted bolts are perfectly ok. Just don’t get an N14.
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BER911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 10 2018 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

Just don’t get an N14.

For sure! Thumbs Up
Semper Fi, Bruce
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BER911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 11 2018 at 2:46pm
Dan,

Here is a better picture of the butt plate on my NPM Bavarian carbine.



Semper Fi, Bruce
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