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Missing "P" Proof?

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6kidsdad View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar 01 2022 at 10:39pm
Hello all. Have an early M1a1 carbine, barrel date of 12-42. Like the carbine,  but the only thing that bothers me is the lack of a P proof mark on the back of the stock. Not been sanded, just is not there.  It is an Overton stock, IO in the stock channel. Did Inland ever just miss applying the P stamps? Could it be a period replacement stock? Action and stock have been together a long time, that I can tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pro Libertate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 02 2022 at 1:33am
I'm sure someone who is more knowledgeable than I will be along shortly, but it was my understanding that the circled "P" proofmarks on the back of the stock were done away with later in production (probably as a time-saving measure). It's very difficult (some might even argue downright impossible) to determine with absolute certainty whether any given barreled action is original to the M1A1 stock its paired with. Without provenance it's hard to definitively say one way or the other, and this is unfortunately the case with many an M1A1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmcdoc67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 02 2022 at 10:41am
Since you didn't say, is it a high wood? If so, a 12/42 should have the circle "P".
Glenn
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 02 2022 at 11:50am
what marking is on the bottom of the grip?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6kidsdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 02 2022 at 10:10pm
It is a high wood stock. On the bottom of the grip is IO and small crossed cannons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmcdoc67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 03 2022 at 8:05am
"FAT BOY" grip. The circle "P" should be there. Have you tried using a magnifying glass to check the area where the circle "P" should be?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingCMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 03 2022 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Pro Libertate Pro Libertate wrote:

I'm sure someone who is more knowledgeable than I will be along shortly, but it was my understanding that the circled "P" proofmarks on the back of the stock were done away with later in production (probably as a time-saving measure). It's very difficult (some might even argue downright impossible) to determine with absolute certainty whether any given barreled action is original to the M1A1 stock its paired with. Without provenance it's hard to definitively say one way or the other, and this is unfortunately the case with many an M1A1.


I wonder if the proof stamp was eliminated because some stocks were getting damaged beyond acceptance standards when they applied it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6kidsdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 03 2022 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by usmcdoc67 usmcdoc67 wrote:

"FAT BOY" grip. The circle "P" should be there. Have you tried using a magnifying glass to check the area where the circle "P" should be?  

Well, did not use a magnifying glass, but placed another pair of glasses on top of my regular ones to kind of make one! Did not need even one pair of glasses when I was 20! What happened? I digress, no mark of any kind. Do not think sanded or worn, just never applied. I guess maybe a replacement part at some point early in life, or just missed getting stamped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 04 2022 at 9:02am
Might have been sanded off. Might not have been marked on stock

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/modelM1A1.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taraw1943 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2022 at 6:22pm
Try a little Formby's or similar on that stock end.  Have a 2-43 bbl on my M1A1 and couldn't find the P for 8 or 9 years. Then viola, circle P, after cleaning the build up of finish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6kidsdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2022 at 4:10pm
Well, did a light wipe down on the end with a bit of linseed oil, nothing has ever been there. Only thing I can surmise was never applied, or a replacement stock early in life. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taraw1943 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2022 at 4:17pm
I had to clean mine with Formby's refinisher to get a lot of Gunk off that butt end.  Then I could see it.  
  But again, If damaged in shipment or training. that's why batches of Carbines all had replacement parts
  Shipped with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kro1970 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2022 at 7:19pm
If I recall correctly a large number of the CMP Greek return high wood M1A1's had fat boy grips, IO and small cross cannons on bottom of the grip but no circle P on rear of the stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2022 at 9:17am
Lots of good replies in this post. Let me try to stitch it together.
M1 carbine stocks in general the proof P was an early requirement and seen on Winchester, Underwood, and IP/S'G' stocks.
the P proof on the stock was no longer required at some point in 1943. It would seem that someone at Inland did not get the memo as we see the P on the bottom of the grips of M1 stocks till late 1943.

our webpage on the M1a1, which I linked above states:
Highwood Walnut used during Inland's 1st production run and at the beginning of their 2nd
production run. Some had the highwood cut to the low wood at some point after leaving
Inland. May or may not have the large circled P on the rear of forestock used as a
proof test fire mark.

(Note, When looking for information on a web page it is useful to use the search function to find a word. On your keyboard hit Ctrl and F together and a search box will open)

CCNL 361-5 on the 4-5 million (third) block states the P proof  appears to have been discontinued at the end of the second serial number block.
It also mentions the Greek returns appearing to be in original condition and no P on the rear of the stocks that were typically seen on the first production run of M1A1s. Note that most of these M1a1s from Greece were in the 4-5 million range.

CCNL 348-14, 15 has an article on the Greek returns and also states most M1a1s did not have the P on the back of the stock or grip, and none of the Richardson made grips have the CC on the side of the grip.

I have one of these Greek returns in the 8k range (SG subcontract) with a 8-43 barrel date. There is no P on the back of the stock which had me scratching my head back in the day. This seems to fit the web page as a second run of the M1a1s

Your carbine with a 12-42 barrel date would seem to be a first run. So the question is if someone dropped the action in the stock, or if an original. You may want to post some pictures and a data sheet for a better idea of what is going on. Pictures of the rear tang and the recoil plate may be very helpful.




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