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Milsurp OAL vs SAAMI OAL

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Rebel92 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 2:09pm
Awesome information. It’s amazing that ammo that old still shoots like it did yesterday! Thanks for sharing!

I for sure have one carbine that I am only able to shoot mil surp ammo out of, and i bet it’s because it doesn’t like the longer profiles of most commercial ammo or the fatter projectiles in the Armscor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sawbones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 1:45pm
Matt:  Chrony was 8 feet from muzzle
"I think youngsters need to start thinking about what kind of world they will leave for me and Keith Richards". Willie Nelson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Sawbones Sawbones wrote:

The Sellier & Ballott Chrony'd at 2,045, 2006, and 2,071 Which is pretty crappy when compared to milsurp.

Expand a bit on why you consider the S&B crappy? It’s faster than the other stuff you tested.

I shoot a lot of S&B in several calibers and in every case, it is hotter stuff. The 9mm is consistently warm at around 1260fps on average. Military grade stuff runs closer to 1300fps, but the S&B is right up there with it. I have never shot any 30-carbine S&B though. I just find S&B ammo to be warmer in the calibers I shoot it in and it’s not rated +p. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 1:07pm
Thank you!  I for one really appreciate the velocities on both the historical and current ammo. 
How far out was the chronograph? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sawbones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 12:49pm
Floydthecat again I agree w/ you.  The 1.680" OAL is the MAXIMUM OAL for the 30 carbine.  I suspect anything longer may allow the bullet to encroach into the lands which causes other problems. 
To clarify:  The SAAMI 1.680" OAL is not the standard OAL" for the 30 carbine cartridge; just don't go longer than 1.680".  Trial and error OALs for your carbine to determine which OAL it likes.  I'd begin at < 1.670".

Again, all the 30cal milsurp I've measured was 1.665 +/- 0.002".  All chambered beautifully in my USGI carbine.

Incidentally:
The Evansville 1944 WWII vintage ammo Chrony'd at 1,954, 1,931, 1,921 and1,925 feet/second which is a pretty tight range for any ammo.

The Lake City 1952 Chrony'd at 1,963, 1,967, 1,929, 1,957 and 1,971 feet/second which is pretty tight.

The Sellier & Ballott Chrony'd at 2,045, 2006, and 2,071 Which is pretty crappy when compared to milsurp.
"I think youngsters need to start thinking about what kind of world they will leave for me and Keith Richards". Willie Nelson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 12:08pm
Not that unusual to hear about carbines with chambering issues using some ammo. There was a change in chamber dimensions early on, which likely contributes to the issue as well as varying bullet profiles. Sometimes SAAMI specifications can seem like a suggestion. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 12:02pm
SAAMI= Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sawbones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2022 at 11:48am
SAAMI = Sporting Arms and Manufacturing Institute

Had the opportunity to Chrony some milsurp ammo to compare w/ reloaded 30 carbine ammo of a fellow Forum comrade.

The reloaded ammo OALs were all 1.672"-1.675"  and every one of the rounds jammed when chambering; tip of projectile hanging up on the rim mouth of the chamber. Curiously the milsurp stuff, namely  Evansville Cartridge Company 1944 and Lake City 1952 all measured 1.665 +/- 0.002" all chambering beautifully w/o 1 jam.  Likewise the off-the-shelf Sellier & Bellot ammo OALs measuring identically to that of the milsurp.

Observation: 
SAAMI recommended OAL for the 30 carbine cartridge is 1.680".
Milsurp  obviously much shorter at 1.665" +/- 0.002".
My carbine will not chamber any cartridge OAL > 1.670"

Seems reasonable to me the shorter OAL of the milSURP ammo is in reality the actual milSPEC (military specification) for the USGI carbine and the longer SAAMI OAL spec is standard for the currently manufactured non-USGI commercial 30cal carbines.

Make sense?

Perhaps if some of you are having chambering issues w/ longer OAL ammo you might consider a shorter cartridge.

I can see where some of you may be rolling your eyes thinking "Where did this moron roll off the cabbage truck" but this is quite a revelation to me, solves my chambering issues so I felt compelled to relay this to other folks on the Forum.
"I think youngsters need to start thinking about what kind of world they will leave for me and Keith Richards". Willie Nelson
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