Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine
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Midway 6 digit Inland G/VG original |
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Mortar-Forker
Recruit Joined: Aug 08 2021 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Posted: Aug 08 2021 at 3:19pm |
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I picked up a 833,xxx 9-43 Inland last week from Midway. It appears mostly original, although I am not an expert. The low stock has no marks except for a faint slingwell impression. The rear sight is irco 7160060. Stock has some mildew and dinged up, but appears period to the rifle. Butt plate is in exceptional condition and appears original Inland. The bore is very good and measures well with an .06 round. Does anyone have any input on the stock? Shouldn't it be low cut? The sights are supposed to be flip sights too?
Thanks and any comments or questions are welcome. 'Also own a '68 Plainfield M1A1 and had a Universal that is long gone. John |
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35 Whelen
On Point Joined: Jul 11 2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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I got one of the Midway carbines too, a National Postal Meter.
My guess is that these were transferred to to the Italians in original condition where they eventually were re-arsenaled/refinished there for police use. It seems logical that they would upgrade the biggest weakness of the original carbines- the flip sights, while leaving everything else as-is. Again, just a guess.
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Might be a poorly struck M-U in the slingwell.
How many holes under the Butt plate ? Charlie-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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The Italians are looking to be mostly or partially original to clearly rebuilt, which was most likely done overseas based on minimal rebuild marks Those fairly correct with adjustable sight were probably field replacements sights. Researcher Don Hillhouse has been finding reports that we published over the years. Below is the earliest report of field replacement rear sights. another Edited by New2brass - Aug 08 2021 at 6:12pm |
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Mortar-Forker
Recruit Joined: Aug 08 2021 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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It is hard telling what was done with the Italian M1s. There are threads over on the CMP site where they are mixmasters, and articles here where they show heavy use with replacement stocks and worn or replaced butt plates. This rifle looks like very little use with the butt plate and bore condition.
I cannot find a trace of an M and I agree that it looks like most of a U there. The butt plate screw made a crack noise when it broke free and the plate was stuck on pretty good. Three holes in the stock under the plate. I tried looking it up, but sometimes it is better to ask and get the help of those more knowledgeable. Thank you very much for the information on the sight field replacements. It is all very fascinating. I have a degree in history and always love to learn more. |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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the next question is going to be for pictures of the bridge and side walls of the inside of the stock. Take a good look to see if any markings on the ledges. I based my post on not only the Italians but also observations of the Bavarian and Austrian returns. For the Italians we started collecting information on them and we got responses from people all over including carbines that are not posted on the web |
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Mortar-Forker
Recruit Joined: Aug 08 2021 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Thanks! I have read that post on the Italian carbines and found it quite informative.
That faint well mark does not look like that in regular light. It almost looks like an I with another number or digit beside it. I tried to get a picture of how it appears in natural light to the naked eye. I looked long and hard for any other marks and have not found any. |
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Mortar-Forker
Recruit Joined: Aug 08 2021 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Another thing, wasn't Inland out of stocks in September of 43 and received a shipment from other manufacturers in October of 43?
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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WWII Era stocks with 3 holes under the plate were:
WRA, SC-B, S&C-U, M-U, BR-B, and J. I see no signs of your stock being cut down from being a Hi-Wood in these pictures. Why I think it's a Marlin made stock: The size of the router bit used in front of the wood bridge (Inside the Op Slide Channel) and the 3 passes ripped thru the Slingwell- with the top line being narrow and the center and bottom passes pretty much the same height. The barrel channel nose and rounded bottom outside edges of the forearm. Add the thick wrist on the grip and the angled/tapered leading edge of the slingwell opening, often 'Mistakenly' attributed just to WRA stocks. Keep in mind most all M-U slingwell stamps we see have the stamps with either the top of the letters oriented to the top of the stock or turned 180 with the top of the letters toward the buttplate. Sometimes the slingwells were left with rougher grain, some smoother. The rubbing of a sling back and forth and the cotton web being wet often distorts stamps that were lightly applied vs stamps whacked pretty hard. This is not the best example, but Here's a picture showing the 3 milling lines, a Angled/tapered leading edge at the start of the slingwell and the M-U with the top of the letters toward the buttplate. *Your picture shows as a better example of the 3 milling line passes and their heights. ** I believe your partial M-U has the top of the letters toward the muzzle** Example pic: UEF M-U stock (Type III on top) WRA stock (Type III bottom). Notice both the Marlin made and WRA stocks have thick wrists. The Marlin has the more rounded edge under the forearm vs the WRA and a shorter less bulky nose profile. Marlin used a more aggressive router/milling bit on wood interior than WRA did. Inland was supplied stocks by S.E. Overton (OI) and Hillerich & Bradsby (HI) They also received transfer some (Lateral support) stocks from/marked: RSG I, RMC I, that I have examples of.... but these are all 1 hole under the buttplate. Charlie-P777 Not too far East of Lansing
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 435 |
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Do you about when Inland received the transfer lateral support stocks from RMC that you mention? Was this the Sept 1943 shortage Mortar-Forker mentioned above and if so were these I Bolt cut out highwood style stocks, or oval cut out highwood stocks? Thanks!
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Would have to look thru notes for dates. Do recall they are I cuts and Oval High woods.
I have quite a few. The I was Serif and are stamped below the stock maker as such: RMC I Here is a RSG with sideways Serif I that is Oval Hi-wood and Inland CC I'm busy tomorrow but I'll try to find my notes/dates/pictures. Later, Charlie-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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35 Whelen
On Point Joined: Jul 11 2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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Thanks for the links. Interesting stuff for sure.
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Mortar-Forker
Recruit Joined: Aug 08 2021 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Thank you for all the information. I wonder how the Marlin stock got on there? I saw that it was listed both as a replacement stock and a Underwood original stock. Maybe the stock and sights were replaced together in the field. It certainly was well used with many small dings and scratches. I should be thankful; the stock condition likely resulted in the NRA grading reduction from fine, to very good. I am very happy with the rifle overall and feel I got a lucky ticket from the Midway Gun Lottery.
I could look around for a "correct" stock to throw in the collection beside it, but the stock and sight on it will likely stay on it. The rifle may have left the war in this configuration. Correcting it will likely diminish the value in my eyes. My Plainfield M1A1 needs a stock and sights more anyway. Charlie, I am just down I-96 in Milford township right by Kensington Metro Park/Kent Lake/Island Lake. The '68 Plainfield that needs a stock and sights to be a better shooter. My SG sight lost its aperture and is loose in the stake: |
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