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Markings Under the Buttplate

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m1a1fan View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 3:16pm
Not a Winch, but has 3 holes
Additional markings
10 over
5

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 3:22pm
Looks like they may be deep enough to stash a "joint"....or 2-joints maybe. Not that I would know anything about that mind you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 3:34pm
Have seen the extra two holes on Winch stocks. Maybe some kind of mounting mechanism for the manufacturing process? Not sure if they look the same as those found on Winch stocks. This stock is birch.

Looking in the CCNL's to see if there is any information about the numbers. Tracking numbers or lot codes?

Quiz: If this stock is birch, what carbine maker used it and how would it be marked in the sling well?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 3:40pm
The holes likely had to do with the stock manufacturing process. While it might be a long shot, it is also possible the stock was made out of another stock that had buttplate holes for a different firearm originally.

With some other firearms, numbers were used to mate the correct stock and buttplate after they were fitted, but while they were separated during the finishing process.

David Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 4:28pm
The first use of Birch wood for M1 Carbines stocks. Manufactured by Sprague & Cariston Co.Kain, New Hampshire  for IBM Type 111 as per Craig Riesch.
Charles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 6:30pm
@Charles: You are correct, this low wood birch stock is marked SCB made for IBM by Sprague & Carleton Co. of Kane NH. Shallow 2 rivet handguard is marked LWB and appears to be made of walnut. See Chris Albright's IBM review in CCNL 329 and the addendum in CCNL 345 for more information. Finally found CCNL 345 which I thought was lost...gotta stop taking CCNL's out of the binder!

The addendum mentions 3 original IBM carbines with SCB stocks and stamped numbers under the buttplate. The purpose of these markings is unknown, but it is stated they appeared to be stamped by the manufacturer. If you have a low wood birch IBM stock, check and see. The IBM reviews are a great read and especially pertinent to an interesting subset of IBM carbines. Who knows, maybe this serial number has a twin?

Here's a snapshot:



@Dave - Sounds like a research project comparing the size, shape and location of the holes compared to Winch stocks. BTW, this receiver is right up your alley....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 7:13pm
The stamped numbers look more resent then the original RLO finish. Notice how the bottom of the stamp marks looks cleaner than the surrounding surface.
Charles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 9:17pm
Could be the angle I took the picture? Took a few more close up and more straight on. Note the same color markings scattered in other areas of the pictures below especially on the right and upper right side. As a wood worker what would you expect these markings to look like? The reason I ask is the CCNL pics are black and white.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 10:07pm
That closeup sort of disproves my earlier observation. I can now see light spots through out not having stain in them. Good photos can be very helpful. Thanks for putting up with me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 01 2017 at 11:06pm
No worries Charles, I'm still not very good at taking pictures.

Your comments got me thinking. It appears that finish was applied first (think they were dipped in tanks) and then the numbers were stamped. If the numbers were stamped first and then the stamped numbers applied, would the patina not be more uniform?

The buttplate seemed to be stuck on. In the buttplate pictures, you can see where subsequent finishes seeped behind the butt plate. It's pretty sticky and kind of dark looking. Perhaps BLO? Does birch take finish well?

This one has a type 1 flip, type 2 band and the receiver is a wide tang.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2017 at 8:23am
Happy 4th,
To answer your question. Birch, due to it's extreme density, is not a good candidate for dark stain. If you think about it, most all  furniture made of birch is not stained at all, only a clear finish. It will take a light stain but will be blotchy  with dark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2017 at 10:22am
Happy 4th Charlie,

Makes sense. Birch seemed like a logical choice for stocks due to its abundance, properties and versatility. Been reading about it and since Sprague was in NH, my guess is there was a large local supply (yellow and or white). White birch is the state tree of NH. Is there a way to tell what species tree was used in a stock by looking at it? Really developing an appreciation for the walnut, birch and cherry used in our carbine stocks and handguards.

I wonder why poplar wasn't used? It's everywhere around here, easy to work with and had good characteristics silmilar to walnut. Pretty cheap but my dad tells me it doesn't take stain well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2017 at 10:57am
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/unusual-markings-on-parts_topic1270.html
Do not forget to check those birch stocks on Underwoods!
 
suspect it may be a Julian date, but as pointed out conventional dates do not seemingly fit. This is where reporting really helps!
 
Another thread on Julian dating
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 02 2017 at 11:35am
White birch, prevelant in the Northen states is consistent in color while  red or yellow is not, takes years to learn the difference. Poplar is totally unsuitable for anything but furniture frame work, too soft, very suseptable to moisture, used a lot in plywood, does not stain well. Nice for carving but little else. Your dad is absolutely right. Nothing beats walnut for gun stocks, works easyley, stains  well, done properly, can have a lustrous finish. A process some will never understand or apriacate. As you may have guessed by now, wood is the love of my life. 
Charles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2017 at 4:54pm
More photos. Cartouche is there but mostly gone due to "fun with sandpaper" but is otherwise what appears to be original condition.


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