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M1A1

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03eleven View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 8:59am
New here but looks like I came to the right place! Been researching this rifle for a few days and would love to get some expert opinions on what exactly I have here. I've been collecting Garands for a few years and recently was given the opportunity to borrow this rifle from a friend for a display at a local Marine Corps League fundraiser and it was one of the crowd favorites. The owner has offered to sell me the rifle with a few hundred rounds and a dozen or so magazines. I've always wanted to add an M1 carbine (in any configuration) to my collection but I want to try and learn as much about this particular rifle as I can first. I think I have a handle on most of the gun parts but really need help identifying the stock. Here's what I know (more accurately what I think I know):

1) Receiver is a Saginaw S'G' 186xxxx (Grand Rapids? Possibly IP transition?) So I know it is not a bonafide M1A1 

2) Barrel: SA  2 51 (Blue Sky import marking), heavy wear 30.06 round sinks to the brass

3) Slide: Springfield? 7161843

4) Trigger: Inland

5) Stock: The only markings I can find is the "OI" on the bottom of the grip and "614" and the wagon wheel cast inside the buttplate, the stock appears to have been crudely modified for the selector but I read this conversion could have been performed in the field in some cases? 

Very interested to know what you think about this mashup and possibly a ballpark estimate before I drop the coin on it, thanks in advance gents!

*Sorry for the terrible photography, happy to retake any pics or other pics if needed*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:13am
Devil Dog, welcome to the forum. So as you know you have a mixed part carbine, with an import mark. Import mark alone knocks down the value to collectors. That is a pretty rough selector cut out on the stock, interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:26am
Thanks W5USMC! Yes it is a pretty rough specimen! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:31am
Also looks like it is missing the leather cheek piece on the wire stock, is that correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:32am
Correct, and the oiler..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 9:46am
So the blue sky imports came from South Korea, no way to tell if that stock was on the carbine when imported but it is possible and maybe the Koreans did the M2 cutout. Are you sure there are no markings on the fore stock anywhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 10:00am
Unfortunately there appears to be a splinter of wood missing where the "OI" mark should be or is worn off but I'm struggling to make out any other proof markings on the stock besides the one on the bottom of the grip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 10:09am
The only wartime production stock was made by Overton for Inland. It would have an OI inside which apparently yours does not.
Springfield Armory made or contracted replacement stocks.

There was something about a different color USGI M1a1 stock and a question of who supplied the blanks to Overton. I have not observed one of these to make comment.

It is unclear to me if yours is USGI, Foreign, or commercial made.

Handgrips on stocks used by Inland were either made by Overton or Richardson. Yours appears to be OI which is Overton.

Someone modified the stock for a selector switch. Does not appear to be oxidized so think newer than Korea era.  Might not be a bad idea to rub some raw linseed or stock oil in the cut parts to preserve. In a pinch, for the inside of the stock, I would not be opposed to vegetable oil.

In your serial range, I would expect the rear left receiver detail to be squared. This would mean the receiver was made at Grand Rapids by Saginaw as opposed to IP. 


The Blue Sky shows the barrel was in Korea, think of it as a tattoo where it served. 


You say the trigger is Inland, do you mean trigger housing?

Slide: Both Inland and Winchester produced the late slides with the numbers. You need to look inside the box for letters.
Are there letters next to the numbers or additional numbers?



Welcome to the forums and thank you for your service.

edit to add, the splinter of missing wood is not big enough to remove the whole OI


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 10:20am
Thanks for the info! Like I said, I have doubts about the fore stock but the wire frame and grip appear to be authentic based on what I've seen, what say you?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03eleven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 10:25am
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 10:29am
I can only read what may be a partial second line

71618 (missing 43?)
96567-  anything else?

Centered all the way to the right it looks like an S?

The second line should be an assigned vendor code from the postwar period possibly up till the '70s
I do not think this has ever been reported. I will have to do some digging.

If possible try taking a picture outside as the camera will have more light to work with.
If you are downsizing pictures to upload I would appreciate a full-size picture which you can email me at Dan@UScarbineCal30.com

trigger housing is an earlier Inland. All parts except some small parts such as springs and plungers are marked. To quote a recent post "Like opening a box of cracker jacks!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 10:33am
Has the stock bridge has been modified and partially removed. Not sure if that is an m2 thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 14 2019 at 10:37am
the bridge would interfere with the disconnector lever.



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