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M1A1 Serial Number Range |
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bokila 
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Joined: Feb 21 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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 Topic: M1A1 Serial Number RangePosted: Feb 23 2019 at 12:24am |
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I dont know if this have been discussed before but I'm looking to invest in a M1A1 Carbine but after reading all the posts about all the fake ones out there I'm doing my homework.
I get the stock markings but the thing that I cant wrap my head around is if theres a specific serial number on the receiver range that never could be a M1A1. For instance - if the first productions run was capped around serial no 950,000 and the second production run was generally between 5,000,000 and 6,449,868 does that mean that receivers with serial no between 950,000 and 5,000,000 could never be a M1A1 regardless of if the stock is authentic or not?
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sling00
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Joined: Apr 21 2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2019 at 6:06am |
Good mornin', and welcome to the forum. Look's like you are well versed in the first rule of collecting. Second rule is "Never say never" with carbines. Ever time I think I have something figured out there seems to be some exception show up. That's the great thing about this forum, lot's of knowledgeable folks to help. As for the serial numbers, as I understand it, with the war ongoing rifles were shipped fairly promptly and so the contract/production dates fairly well matched. That being said, I'm sure some folks will join in and may impart one or two of the exceptions I was talking about.
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tenOCEE
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Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2019 at 9:26am |
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Based on the out of normal range question, most people won't really believe it's original based on the common knowledge so it will never be as rock solid in belief as one in the normal range. If you have access to one in that range that appears original, should you believe in it or change it? Just leave it as is. It could be real as mentioned above. Wanting to change it in order to make it more desirable is giving into greed or a similar unhealthy emotion. Early feature Inland actions are easy to find in original condition so it's not a challenge to find one and swap into a folding stock. One stock I found is in super condition, has all the appropriate cartouches so it was an issued one and wasn't an uncartouched surplus stock, but I got it without an action installed. Why? idk. Probably had a non-Inland action or the deceased owner had it out for some reason. I got it with two non=Inland actions and boxes of small parts. It's a simple task to insert the proper action that will appear original but it's not.
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bokila
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Joined: Feb 21 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2019 at 10:32am |
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Understand both your points - so this is where I'm coming from - I currently have two carbines in my collection mostly containing European bolt action rifles(fairly new to U.S ones). One numbered 2169XXX - a Bavarian Forestry Police original from all the research I have done. The other one is numbered 3157XXX seems to be one of the many issued, nothing spectacular but have all the right markings. I wanted to add a paratrooper version but based on the books and forum posts I have read I'm more and more hesitant to spend the money required to get one since it's likely that you will end up with something pieced together to make money.
One of the things that bother me is the fact that some sources indicate that certain serial number ranges are more or less excluded - would never be assembled with a paratrooper stock, basically 2912520 to 3212519 (Inland). Is this true or should I still consider that serial number range in my search for a "true" M1A1 Carbine?
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4657 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2019 at 10:33am |
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Production run being relevant. Inland did not stop producing the M1 to work on the M1a1 at specific times. Like the M2, Inland would just grab the carbine off the assembly line and assemble as required.
So you could have an M1a1 with a serial number and the next serial number would be an M1. for the M2 they would hand stamp a 1 or 2 on the front ring. The M1a1 there was no marking requirement. There was no production run cap when they reached a certain number. INland rolled into the next block of numbers seamlessly. Further by looking at barrel dates it would suggest that the two blocks have overlap meaning that you can see first and second block overlap of barrel dates for a few months. In order to ascertain serial ranges, you have to have a large sample of M1a1s to separate the wheat from the chaff to determine serial ranges. Couple that with known contract dates and you can guestimate the serial ranges. Some use barrel dates. You mention "Fake". we need to weed this down, Are you looking for an M1a1 with all USGI parts, fake being reproduction parts? Are you looking for a correct M1a1 with an action that could be correct for the stock considering the time periods? Or are you looking for an M1a1 as it left the factory? If so you need to do a lot of research on what to look for! The grim reality is that the majority of carbines went through rebuilds either here in the states or overseas. Those done here should bare a rebuild mark. Those done overseas there would be no rebuild mark. There are pictures from the Fabrique National (FN) rebuilds and there are M1a1 stocks piled high. I do not know if the club published serial or barrel ranges. Maybe someone who knows will chime in. It may not be the answer you are looking for but hope that information helps give you some direction on the basics. |
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bokila
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Joined: Feb 21 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2019 at 1:43pm |
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Thank you for your input - I think I'm looking for " a correct M1a1 with an action that could be correct for the stock considering the time periods"
When I'm say "fake" I mean the fact that you can buy a M1A! stock for around $200 pretty much anywhere and put action in it. I would like to find a M1A1 with a time correct action and stock - I realize that finding something that was put together this way day 1 and remains the same would be really hard to find.
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tenOCEE
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Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2019 at 1:46pm |
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M1A1 and IP are the most likely to be corrected or contrived, IMO. If you see one that isn't in fully upgraded rebuilt condition it's probably had parts changed.
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m1a1fan
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Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2019 at 2:53pm |
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Welcome to the club.
A good place to start might be an M1A1 that has been to the arsenal. They aren’t as pricey as originals, but are still GI. Also they might have their original Inland barreled receiver even though some parts were upgraded. If the barreled receiver was changed, this can be used in an attempt to drive the price down. Another option is finding an arsenal stock as a base for a GI Inland build. Augusta and Rock Island Arsenal carbine are the ones I’ve seen the most. Still some learning involved, but not as difficult as finding and vetting an original version. They show up on the auction sites from time to time and also on the CMP site. |
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bokila wrote: