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M1 Carbine Info Needed

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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 06 2020 at 11:04pm
Was the receiver maybe a reclaimed drill? The only way I see to make it viable again is by machining about 50 thousanths (like a counterbore approach) to make a true and square face then using a large shim. Muy grande. Very big.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 07 2020 at 10:29pm
guys--the receiver is super early serial for having the serial set back and trademark switched from top to bottom, its screwed but is very unique because of the rear receiver marking-from memory I have 6466208 which is set back and believe it got published 15 yrs ago as earliest seen with that probably being a reused serial--well can make pretty wall hanger no extra spent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2020 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by welbytwo welbytwo wrote:

guys--the receiver is super early serial for having the serial set back and trademark switched from top to bottom, its screwed but is very unique because of the rear receiver marking-from memory I have 6466208 which is set back and believe it got published 15 yrs ago as earliest seen with that probably being a reused serial--well can make pretty wall hanger no extra spent

Hi Marcus,
Do you mean: Trademark switched from Bottom to Top?
Pic shows no Trademark stamp below Winchester stamp.

Charlie-P777
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welbytwo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2020 at 7:52pm
on early winch till about 661xxxx winchester has trademark stamped below winchester--after the adj sight was fully adapted they move serial back and flipped trademark to top so you could see winchester name behind the adjustable sight hence the value uptick for late winchesters--you really can see what brand it is
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painter777 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2020 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by welbytwo welbytwo wrote:

the receiver is super early serial for having the serial set back and trademark switched from top to bottom

Marcus above you had it reversed .....

"Trademark switched from TOP to BOTTOM."

I understand your new reply and why the Winchester name was lowered and the TRADEMARK STAMP was moved to above the Winchester name instead of below the Winchester name.

In other words, I figure you mean't to say Trademark Switched from Bottom to Top in your first reply.

Corn growing in this heat? Getting any rain ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 09 2020 at 12:02am
corn is just ok--dry now-had to replace two irrigation well motors--too much bourbon--top bottom bottom top u know
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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 09 2020 at 9:31am
Most of my interest in Carbine was with Winchester and I've had as many Wins as Inlands. It never made a difference to me where the maker stamping is located and didn't learn of it until I'd been into them for 6-7 years. At the same time I do't fault someone for preferring the change when offered a choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2020 at 3:30pm
There's some good background info on the trademark change in NL 355-2 and 3. Personally, I've never seen a WRA carbine in the 5 million range with the change in location, but I've hardly come even remotely close to seeing all of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 11:25am

UPDATE

I purchased the OP’s carbine and was able to find a way to safely correct the damage done to the receiver.   It involved installing a special spacer to replace the material removed from the front of the receiver. Afterward the barrel was able to be properly torqued to the index mark resulting in an actual head space of 1.290”+. In addition to the receiver repair I replaced the rear sight, recoil spring, recoil spring guide and mag catch plunger/spring. These all appeared to be either modified or homemade. The front sight pin and key were missing so they were replaced as well. I also intend to replace the hand guard which is a poorly made commercial reproduction and fits very loosely. Pictures below show the parts replaced.

    

    

    




I was finally able to test fire this carbine and so far, things look good. First round was low so I adjusted the hold to put the next six rounds in the black. I will adjust the front sight height after I put a few more rounds through her. Empty casings look okay with the typical little ding often found with early operating slides. No malfunctions occurred but more testing is needed.





As mentioned in an earlier post, this carbine has the word “Trademark” above the “Winchester” name on the receiver, perhaps one of the first to have this feature.   Another interesting find I discovered when replacing the rear sight is that there are no stake marks at all on the receiver. Is this unusual for Winchester?





Also, in spite of the proof marks, the Marlin barrel appears to be new.   The gas cylinder nut was loose and unstaked. There was no accumulation of carbon in the gas cylinder or on the back of the piston.

I am unable to explain why the receiver was ground like it was except perhaps as an attempt to correct barrel/receiver timing during the installation of a “new” barrel and too much material was removed.

I will post more pictures after I get the replacement hand guard and clean up the stock a bit. Stay tuned.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 11:47am
Very good “Mr. Wizard”. Rescued a potential lost treasure.

I might be interested in the handguard, depending on how long it is. Commercials sometime measure closer to 8-1/4 than GI 8-1/8. If that one is 8-1/4.....I’d make it worth the effort to measure it and PM me.

Good job Jack!

EDIT: A man my age should never work from memory. I meant 8 and not 10. Corrected post.


Edited by floydthecat - Jul 18 2020 at 12:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 12:21pm
Would be great to see pictures of how you did the repair!

Nice work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 12:42pm
Very nice JackP,  I thought for sure that carbine was destined to be a wall hanger. Glad to see that it is functional again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 2:25pm
@03manV, When I first saw the picture of the receiver the OP posted, I thought the "filing" was square with the face of the receiver. What the picture didn't show was the mating surface was actually beveled or chamfered at a 30 degree angle. I had hoped to fix the problem with a simple shim that was a thickness that would allow the correct timing. That was not possible with the bevel. I suppose I could have re-machined the mating surface and replace the missing material with a spacer, but I didn't need to. What I ended up doing was fabricating a special metal ring that would "crush" to fill the beveled space allowing sufficient torque to reach the index mark. Below is a picture of the ring I made out of "special" material and a little sketch of how it fits between the barrel and receiver (on the left) compared to a shim (on the right). The repair is not visible after the barrel was installed so there's not much to see.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 3:30pm
Looks like a Harley exhaust gasket...lol.

Do you think it will flow over time...maybe need to keep an eye on it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 3:55pm
@floydthecat, I will keep an eye on it. I was unable to find a torque specification for the carbine barrel. Available documentation only specifies an amount of rotation, usually 1/16" to 3/32" rotation after hand tight to the index mark. The torque that it takes to get there is whatever it is. Since I was crushing the ring I made I knew that I needed to use torque as a measure. Fortunately I was able to achieve in excess of 60 ft. lbs. by the time I reached the index mark. I would have been happier with 80 ft lbs but I think it will be okay. The crush ring is a fairly hard substance but I expect there was a considerable exchange of molecules between it and the barrel and receiver. I guess we'll see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightning330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 4:48pm
Very nicely done Jack and a great save.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 5:19pm
I just received the replacement hand guard from Ebay. My wife says it matches perfectly. Who am I to argue? Below are a few pictures of the completed project. As floydthecat suggested I should keep an eye on the barrel tightness but so far, I’m happy. I’m all in for under $750.


    

    

    

The Type II stock had a coat of spray-on clear coat which was easily removed with a little acetone. The wood doesn’t look like it’s been sanded at all and I left it that way. I just rubbed in a little RLO. No CC or rebuild marks on the stock so I suspect it may have been a wartime field replacement. I replaced the broken rear sight with a spare Type 3 I had. You might see the red tube aperture insert I added to help sharpen the sight picture. It makes a big difference! Try it.


    

    


It turns out the only Winchester parts are the receiver and trigger (and now the hand guard). The stock is Inland, the trigger housing is S’G’ and the bolt and slide are Inland. Other internal parts are a mix of SG and Inland. Oh, and the barrel is Marlin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2020 at 7:01pm
Nice job on saving that carbine. Looks to me like no one will ever know unless they remove the barrel and I doubt there will ever be a need for that.
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