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M1 Carbine Info Needed |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Was the receiver maybe a reclaimed drill? The only way I see to make it viable again is by machining about 50 thousanths (like a counterbore approach) to make a true and square face then using a large shim. Muy grande. Very big.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 802 |
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guys--the receiver is super early serial for having the serial set back and trademark switched from top to bottom, its screwed but is very unique because of the rear receiver marking-from memory I have 6466208 which is set back and believe it got published 15 yrs ago as earliest seen with that probably being a reused serial--well can make pretty wall hanger no extra spent
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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Hi Marcus, Do you mean: Trademark switched from Bottom to Top? Pic shows no Trademark stamp below Winchester stamp. Charlie-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 802 |
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on early winch till about 661xxxx winchester has trademark stamped below winchester--after the adj sight was fully adapted they move serial back and flipped trademark to top so you could see winchester name behind the adjustable sight hence the value uptick for late winchesters--you really can see what brand it is
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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Marcus above you had it reversed ..... "Trademark switched from TOP to BOTTOM." I understand your new reply and why the Winchester name was lowered and the TRADEMARK STAMP was moved to above the Winchester name instead of below the Winchester name. In other words, I figure you mean't to say Trademark Switched from Bottom to Top in your first reply. Corn growing in this heat? Getting any rain ? Cheers, Charlie-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 802 |
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corn is just ok--dry now-had to replace two irrigation well motors--too much bourbon--top bottom bottom top u know
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Most of my interest in Carbine was with Winchester and I've had as many Wins as Inlands. It never made a difference to me where the maker stamping is located and didn't learn of it until I'd been into them for 6-7 years. At the same time I do't fault someone for preferring the change when offered a choice.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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Why Carbines?
Hard Corps Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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There's some good background info on the trademark change in NL 355-2 and 3. Personally, I've never seen a WRA carbine in the 5 million range with the change in location, but I've hardly come even remotely close to seeing all of them.
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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UPDATE I purchased the OP’s carbine and was able to find a way to safely correct the damage done to the receiver. It involved installing a special spacer to replace the material removed from the front of the receiver. Afterward the barrel was able to be properly torqued to the index mark resulting in an actual head space of 1.290”+. In addition to the receiver repair I replaced the rear sight, recoil spring, recoil spring guide and mag catch plunger/spring. These all appeared to be either modified or homemade. The front sight pin and key were missing so they were replaced as well. I also intend to replace the hand guard which is a poorly made commercial reproduction and fits very loosely. Pictures below show the parts replaced. I was finally able to test fire this carbine and so far, things look good. First round was low so I adjusted the hold to put the next six rounds in the black. I will adjust the front sight height after I put a few more rounds through her. Empty casings look okay with the typical little ding often found with early operating slides. No malfunctions occurred but more testing is needed. As mentioned in an earlier post, this carbine has the word “Trademark” above the “Winchester” name on the receiver, perhaps one of the first to have this feature. Another interesting find I discovered when replacing the rear sight is that there are no stake marks at all on the receiver. Is this unusual for Winchester? Also, in spite of the proof marks, the Marlin barrel appears to be new. The gas cylinder nut was loose and unstaked. There was no accumulation of carbon in the gas cylinder or on the back of the piston. I am unable to explain why the receiver was ground like it was except perhaps as an attempt to correct barrel/receiver timing during the installation of a “new” barrel and too much material was removed. I will post more pictures after I get the replacement hand guard and clean up the stock a bit. Stay tuned. |
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JackP
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Very good “Mr. Wizard”. Rescued a potential lost treasure.
I might be interested in the handguard, depending on how long it is. Commercials sometime measure closer to 8-1/4 than GI 8-1/8. If that one is 8-1/4.....I’d make it worth the effort to measure it and PM me. Good job Jack! EDIT: A man my age should never work from memory. I meant 8 and not 10. Corrected post.
Edited by floydthecat - Jul 18 2020 at 12:43pm |
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03manV
On Point Joined: Mar 01 2020 Location: near Charlotte Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Would be great to see pictures of how you did the repair!
Nice work.
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Don
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
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Very nice JackP, I thought for sure that carbine was destined to be a wall hanger. Glad to see that it is functional again.
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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@03manV, When I first saw the picture of the receiver the OP posted, I thought the "filing" was square with the face of the receiver. What the picture didn't show was the mating surface was actually beveled or chamfered at a 30 degree angle. I had hoped to fix the problem with a simple shim that was a thickness that would allow the correct timing. That was not possible with the bevel. I suppose I could have re-machined the mating surface and replace the missing material with a spacer, but I didn't need to. What I ended up doing was fabricating a special metal ring that would "crush" to fill the beveled space allowing sufficient torque to reach the index mark. Below is a picture of the ring I made out of "special" material and a little sketch of how it fits between the barrel and receiver (on the left) compared to a shim (on the right). The repair is not visible after the barrel was installed so there's not much to see.
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JackP
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floydthecat
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Looks like a Harley exhaust gasket...lol.
Do you think it will flow over time...maybe need to keep an eye on it?
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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@floydthecat, I will keep an eye on it. I was unable to find a torque specification for the carbine barrel. Available documentation only specifies an amount of rotation, usually 1/16" to 3/32" rotation after hand tight to the index mark. The torque that it takes to get there is whatever it is. Since I was crushing the ring I made I knew that I needed to use torque as a measure. Fortunately I was able to achieve in excess of 60 ft. lbs. by the time I reached the index mark. I would have been happier with 80 ft lbs but I think it will be okay. The crush ring is a fairly hard substance but I expect there was a considerable exchange of molecules between it and the barrel and receiver. I guess we'll see.
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JackP
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Lightning330
On Point Joined: Aug 22 2018 Location: Page, AZ 86040 Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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Very nicely done Jack and a great save.
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Lightning 330
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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I just received the replacement hand guard from Ebay. My wife says it matches perfectly. Who am I to argue? Below are a few pictures of the completed project. As floydthecat suggested I should keep an eye on the barrel tightness but so far, I’m happy. I’m all in for under $750.
The Type II stock had a coat of spray-on clear coat which was easily removed with a little acetone. The wood doesn’t look like it’s been sanded at all and I left it that way. I just rubbed in a little RLO. No CC or rebuild marks on the stock so I suspect it may have been a wartime field replacement. I replaced the broken rear sight with a spare Type 3 I had. You might see the red tube aperture insert I added to help sharpen the sight picture. It makes a big difference! Try it. It turns out the only Winchester parts are the receiver and trigger (and now the hand guard). The stock is Inland, the trigger housing is S’G’ and the bolt and slide are Inland. Other internal parts are a mix of SG and Inland. Oh, and the barrel is Marlin. |
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JackP
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Smokpole
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 21 2019 Location: Madison ohio Status: Offline Points: 1052 |
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Nice job on saving that carbine. Looks to me like no one will ever know unless they remove the barrel and I doubt there will ever be a need for that.
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OGCA Life member
NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
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