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M1 Carbine Info Needed

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rstilley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: M1 Carbine Info Needed
    Posted: Oct 22 2019 at 4:46pm

 

Hi, I just inherited an M1 Carbine from my Uncle who recently passed away. He was in WWII in the Army. I have been trying to do some research on it, and referring to the book by Craig Riesch on these rifles. So far I have determined that the Receiver was manufactured by Winchester – serial # 6459093 and appears to be Type 1B. It seems original with Parkerized finish.

The rear sight appears to be Type III manufactured by J.A. Otterbein and I assume installed by Winchester? The bolt appears to be Type III round bolt.

I have not disassembled the gun yet as I have run into an issue, I believe, with the barrel on this gun and need some guidance.

The barrel is not original with a Winchester proof mark. It has a threaded appearance – or a barrel that has possibly been turned on a lathe? It has “MARLIN” stamped on it and what appears to be a D or P proof mark about 7” back ( both hardly legible). It appears to have a rounded crown and I think it may be Type 1 barrel? It is not a Parkerized finish – rather a threaded appearance, so I assume the barrel is a replacement but I don’t have any idea who replaced it or when it would have been done. I couldn’t find any information on a barrel in this condition or appearance.

The front sight appears to be Type 1 with a P stamped behind the blade – which I think means it was made by Inland. The barrel band appears to be Type 1 and has U1 on band and U1 on swivel so I assume it was manufactured also by Inland.

The stock does not look like it has ever been refinished, and appears original and in very good condition (in my opinion). It has a military issue strap also.

 

I am hopeful you may be able to give me some guidance as to what I have (based on above) and what I need to do to find out more about the barrel situation. Below is a Dropbox link with some pictures that may be helpful. Would like to know whether it would make any sense to try to obtain an original Winchester barrel somehow??  Don’t even know if that is even possible, or economically practical?? Can you estimate value as is and what it would be if barrel was replaced with a Winchester ??

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zg7xm4jfhpnbm8t/AAC6HeTOktvWlhBiEgDTWxDNa?dl=0

 

 

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W5USMC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2019 at 5:35pm
Welcome to the forum, nice looking carbine. Possibly went through a rebuild somewhere along the line and ended up with the Marlin barrel. As far as the finish, some barrels were ground smooth others were not. See the below link for more on that. Would really like to know the inside parts markings, any markings on the stock? If it were mine I would not change a thing.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/barrels.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2019 at 7:22pm
Hi and welcome to the Collectors Club from New Mexico!

Like Wayne said, it's been rebuilt and the barrel replaced. Marlin was a supplier of barrels for National Postal Meter and Standard Products during WW2 as part of the Government-Free-Issue Barrel Program and they also supplied barrels for field replacement during and after WW2. Yours was probably replaced during the war. If it were replaced later, it likely would have had a later Type 2 or 3 barrel band installed. Replacing the barrel would be a very expensive undertaking and totally unnecessary as long as the Marlin works. Once you get into disassembling it you will likely find other non-Winchester parts.

The stock looks like it's Winchester as well. Look for a tiny "W" stamped in the sling well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2019 at 7:25pm
How and why barrels were swapped.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/postwar.html

That barrel was once on an NPM. The band was not made by Inland, It was made by Union Hardware and used by several prime contractors.
Swivel is UI/UP

Front sight is a replacement, Which I wonder why the band was not swapped out at rebuild

The rear sight looks like the windage screw looks to have an issue. 

I do not think the cost of replacing the barrel would increase value due to the cost of replacing. But value should not be the issue of your cherished inheritance unless you are looking to flip it.

Welcome to the world of carbines!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2019 at 8:40pm
Doesn't look to be a WRA stock IMO. And stock is a Type II Hi-wood- to early for a 6mil WRA receiver.
Stock shows early band use only, if I'm seeing correctly.
Trigger housing has no Oil/Lube/Drain hole for serial range.
See no remnants of Grey paint on the Rear Adj sight, like on late WRA sights.
NPM used Marlin barrel could be traded for a late WRA Barrel.
Be interesting to see how it breaks down.
Is a nice looking carbine overall.
My best shooter carbine has a Marlin barrel.

Welcome and Thx for sharing,

Charlie-P777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2019 at 9:11pm
Regardless of maker the stock is beautiful. I agree at first glance that the stock does not appear to be WRA, but I'd like to see the slingwell to verify one way or another. Another thought is while it's a rebuild it's a bit odd, in a good way, as far as the parts used. Overall, I like it and BW don't change a thing on it, it certainly won't make it better if you do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2019 at 11:03am
Hi Wayne, Thanks for info. That link is really helpful and I will be researching a lot more details on my rifle now. I did check the stock and have determined it is Type II - with oval cut /high wood features. I cannot find any external markings on the stock- anywhere. However, inside the sling cutout is stamped IO or OI. The reference book and link indicates this stock was made by S.E. Overton Co. for Inland, and there apparently were 400k of them made - correct? 
Also have found info on the barrel showing finished barrels as opposed to unfinished barrels - which I now see is what mine is.
Plan to take rifle to a really good gunsmith in near future and have them disassemble, clean and inspect to make sure it is safe to operate. Plan to have them take pictures of all the disassembled parts showing any markings on same. Hope to identify manufacturers of every part. Anything else I should have them do??
Thanks for your help and those of others, who I will reply to also.  Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2019 at 11:16am
Hi Charlie, Thanks for very helpful reply. I know what acronym WRA stands for, but what is IMO?? Appears my rifle is a rebuild of different parts and not all original Winchester. Wonder if there is any way to determine if it was rebuilt during the war or later?? Should learn more after it is broken down and have all the parts examined and markings identified by gunsmith. Will post my findings once I have them so that all you experts can evaluate what I have!  Thanks,  Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2019 at 11:21am
Hi New2Brass,  Thanks for reply and link. Getting a real education from all you guys. Thanks! Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BER911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2019 at 2:01pm
Nice looking carbine. 

IMO - in my opinion

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2019 at 5:52pm
My gut wants to say the early UI barrel band and swivel came on that Inland stock. When the WRA receiver was mated to the Marlin barrel is when the swivel/band was slid on then the late P marked frt sight. Could very well be a theatre refurbished carbine.
No real way to tell.

Shoot it and let us know how she likes it.
I'd only change anything that affects reliable function.

No sign of a Crossed Cannons Ordnance Stamp near the oiler slot?
View from multiple angles for any remnants of the stamp.
Look for circled P proof on the bottom of the pistol grip.

Enjoy,
CH-P777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2020 at 8:33am
Back in October I posted information on my M1 Carbine I had inherited. I decided to send it to DGR in TN to have them inspect and see what it needed to restore. Turns out the WRA receiver is bad as someone had filed the front of it for some unknown reason before I got it. I was unaware of that issue. Anyway, all else on the rifle is good according to DGR and I previously posted pictures which I assume are still available for viewing. DGR says receiver needs replaced and then it should be in good operable condition. I have decided that I am not going to invest $3-400 in a used receiver, plus the cost to install, etc. so I am going to sell as is. Would like to know id any of you guys are interested  in making me an offer. If so, please contact me and let me know what additional info or pictures you need.  Not sure if everyone I corresponded with on forum will see this - hope so. 
Thanks. Bob Stilley 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2020 at 10:30am
Bob, Is the receiver filed where the barrel mounts? Any pictures of the filing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2020 at 10:59am
Please send me your email so I can send you pictures.










Edited by New2brass - Jun 10 2020 at 9:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2020 at 11:05am
Wonder if someone was trying to set the barrel back by taking material off the face of the receiver?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2020 at 9:02am
Images added
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2020 at 9:52am
How? Why? Another one bites the dust.
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2020 at 1:34pm
Oh my. Bubba strikes. I wonder if that was an attempt to fix a headspace issue; chamber was reamed too far or something. How does the barrel shoulder look?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2020 at 2:12pm
That can be fixed with a trash can and a new receiver. Hope that was not a real gunsmith that did that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2020 at 7:14pm
Are you near DGR?
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/
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