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Korean era tracers

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john843 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 5:42pm
I received a call last night from a gentleman that I'm doing some work for on a Browning SA 22 that knows I'm a fan of all things M-1 Carbine. He said he had some .30 Carbine ammo that I could have if I'd come pick it up. When I got there today I was surprised that it was 4 120 rnd. each bandoliers with intact stripper clips in the cardboard. The bandoliers were marked for Lake City and the headstamp was '53 on the only one I opened. All 4 bandoliers are marked Tracer M-27 and are in great condition. That leads to two questions I have: Do these have ANY collector value and if not, (or negligible) does shooting a fair amount of tracers have any adverse effect on the bore or possibly the gas piston? I was at work today when I swung by to check them out and told him I'd pick them up Sat. when I returned his .22. I'll get some pics of them when I bring them home if that'll help but any info or advice on them would be appreciated.

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John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 6:04pm
Interesting find/gift.

I’m certainly not an ammunition expert, but in the military, I never noticed any abnormal damage or wear to a weapon/barrel by shooting tracers.  We used to heat up and wear out barrels, but that was due more to the volume of rounds through the barrel, not the tracers. We mostly used tracers on fully automatic weapons, though, with only every 5th or 6th round being a tracer.  Sometimes filled M16s with all tracers, but not much.  I’d be sure to just give a good cleaning after. 

As far as collect or shoot, IMHO, I think more of a collectible.  They aren’t making any more Korea war era tracer ammo.

If you do shoot some, just be cognizant of not shooting into dry brush or grass in the background with the potential of starting a fire.  We used to start a lot of dry grass and brush on fire shooting tracers. Maybe some of those were incendiary tracers, but know some were just straight 5.56 tracers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 6:45pm
Absolute no adverse effect in shooting the tracers, the tracer round does not ignite until it is long gone from the barrel. As Chad mentioned a grass or brush fire is possible. Collectible, I would say yes, last gun show I was at a vender was selling LC tracers in 50 round boxes for $100, not sure he sold any. 
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 8:24pm
Here ya go.  A 1953 Lake City ammo crate on eBay that just happens to be tracer ammo.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 8:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 11:45pm
Definitely collectable ammo, I'd estimate $1 - $1.25 per round from what I've seen. It was a few years ago now, but I'd traded some, and I think I got $1 round in value. CMP received a small number of crates of it back in 2012 and was sold for $475 shipped per 1200 round crate as pictured above. The crate was one of the coolest things about the deal. It quickly sold out. I miss the "old" days when Orest released some really neat stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john843 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 6:27am
Thanks for the info and links. Also, the reminder to not start a fire! The only time I've ever shot tracers, it was from a dock on the Intracoastal Waterway across to a mud flat so that wasn't a concern and I can honestly say, it hadn't crossed my mind.
In addition to the tracers he also gave me 9 boxes of steel cased .45 from the Evansville plant stamped EC '43. The box conditions range from fair to very good. Guess I need to get a .45 to go with them:) As if that wasn't enough, when I got back in my truck he walked out and asked if I had any use for some .22 and when I told him yes definitely, he took me back in and handed me 6 500 rnd. boxes out of two 5 gallon buckets full of them. I asked him hadn't he been tempted to sell any of them through the various .22 shortages and his reply was "didn't know nothing 'bout no shortage"

Thanks again for the help,
John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rdftwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 8:24am
Hello Gentlemen,
This is my first post outside of the new member introduction section.  I have some tracers a local guy was reloading with reclaimed bullets. I don't remember where he got them but they did work and were fun to shoot. Tracers really make ballistics and speed of projectiles real in your mind. All have mixed head stamps...military and commercial. I kept the last 100 on the shelf for the last 20 years. Anybody interested in their purchase? I can upload a picture is someone will please explain too me how to do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 8:42am
Originally posted by GotSnlB28 GotSnlB28 wrote:

Definitely collectable ammo, I'd estimate $1 - $1.25 per round from what I've seen. It was a few years ago now, but I'd traded some, and I think I got $1 round in value. CMP received a small number of crates of it back in 2012 and was sold for $475 shipped per 1200 round crate as pictured above. The crate was one of the coolest things about the deal. It quickly sold out. I miss the "old" days when Orest released some really neat stuff.

Hell, Remington 110 grain soft point is $1.80 a round.
David Milisock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 11:06am
Orest would have rotated showroom openings too. I live 2 hours from Camp Perry, but I can't go there to personally pick out a "new" Garand. If I want one, I have to go through the mail order process or make a 4 day trip!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 11:44am
David - I think GotSnlB28 was referring to prices a few years ago.
$1.80 is a crazy asking price for JSP.  Don't pay that much!  Prices vary but ammoseek is showing several sellers offering Rem/UMC FMJ and JSP at $0.80 per rnd. 

IMO carbine tracer is definately an interesting collectible. 
Brief mention of uses in the 23 April 1944 edition of FM 23-7 on page 63.
"This cartridge is for observation of fire and incendiary purposes."
I think there may also be a mention of using it for observing shots during training. 

The cartridge referenced in the 1944 FM is designated M16.  Might be a little different than the M27.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

The cartridge referenced in the 1944 FM is designated M16.  Might be a little different than the M27. 

The T24/M16 tracer was the original tracer round. The T43/M27 used a different tracer/igniter mixture which was dimmer and proved to be much better at preventing disclosure of firing positions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

The cartridge referenced in the 1944 FM is designated M16.  Might be a little different than the M27. 

The T24/M16 tracer was the original tracer round. The T43/M27 used a different tracer/igniter mixture which was dimmer and proved to be much better at preventing disclosure of firing positions. 

I don't buy ammo I reload, a few pounds of Li'lGun in stock a thousand primers and I just got 300 Hornady 110 Soft Points. I'll add those loaded rounds to the inventory. 
David Milisock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 1:11pm
David, I just checked GunBroker and you could pick up a 600 round spam can of M27 for a "fire sale" price of $1.25 per round... Anyway, prices are inflated these days as you indicate. How much of the ammo is moving at that price? One things for sure, they arent making any more M27.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2021 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by GotSnlB28 GotSnlB28 wrote:

David, I just checked GunBroker and you could pick up a 600 round spam can of M27 for a "fire sale" price of $1.25 per round... Anyway, prices are inflated these days as you indicate. How much of the ammo is moving at that price? One things for sure, they arent making any more M27.
Thanks, not an issue for me I'm reloading for less than 1/2 of that and the ammo is premium 110 grain projectiles at 2050 FPS. I have several hundred 110 grain FMJ reloads but really inventory the JSP rounds, at 2050 they really expand and the FMJ really penetrates. I have a bunch of modern factory JSP and FMJ but my reloads shoot rings around them.

Just FYI almost all quality 30 Carbine ammo is sold out and sells out very quickly when in stock.  IMO that is testimony to the current use of the rifle in civilian hands.


David Milisock
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