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twozero View Drop Down
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Joined: Jun 03 2018
Location: Oakley, CA
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    Posted: Jun 06 2018 at 4:23pm
Greetings, everyone.  I'm a long time carbine owner but brand new to your forum from northern CA.  I joined in hopes of being able to learn from all the wonderful knowledge and experience you have here as well as hopefully get pointed in the right direction with a modest project I am attempting with my carbine.

I wish I could say that I own a pristine example of a 100% authentic "G.I. issue" M1 Carbine from one of the many manufacturers who actually made them for the government.  Unfortunately, that is not the case.  My carbine is a humble Universal look-alike that I purchased brand new way back in 1973 before I was old enough to know all M1s were not created equal.  It was readily available and very inexpensive.  Despite the lack of pedigree, and I have heard all manner of horror stories from those whose Universals did not perform or hold up so well, mine has been relatively problem free and has done what little I have demanded of it fairly well.  My carbine is essentially identical to the one in this pic I grabbed off Google Images. 

Now that I am about to retire and have a little extra time on my hands, I have decided to finally address something that has been bothering me for years.  My carbine will never be authentic and I don't have any desire to try to pass it off as one or to ever sell it.  If anything, it will end up being passed on to my sons if the laws in this wonderful state will still permit it by whenever I pass from this world.

What bugs me, is that even though it isn't authentic, I wish it at least looked more like a genuine M1; if only at first glance.  The two most obvious differences I am hoping to correct are the black vented metal upper hand guard and the absence of a bayonet lug.  The former is fairly easy to replace with wood; even if I have to carve my own and/or refinish it to match.  But, finding a barrel band assembly with the bayonet lug that will fit the thicker barrel of the Universal is proving to be a bit more of a challenge.  I bought one from Numrich that is supposed to fit but it is just too tight and it doesn't look like there is enough wall thickness to hone it out to make the inner diameter large enough.

So, again, greetings to you all.  Before I burden any of you with lots of questions, I'm off into your archives because the answers are probably already there.

Rich Ng
Oakley, CA
 
TwoZero
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 06 2018 at 11:05pm
Welcome to the forum.
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2018 at 6:12am
Welcome to the forum.  Lots of great folks on here to help answer questions re: commercial carbines.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2018 at 8:04am
Welcome to the forum, wish I could help but don't have an answer to that.You must know that the bayonet lug was an add on later to upgrade the older weapons.
Charles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2018 at 11:13am
I was noticing in the pic that the handguard seemed to be the main thing. As for the barrel band it has the general looks of a type 2 band or are you set on getting a bayo lug?  Any thoughts to saving up for a military issued shooter? Just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twozero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2018 at 5:02pm
The bayonet lug isn't an absolute must have.  After all, even if I acquire an authentic  M4 bayonet and M8A1 scabbard, which I haven't done yet, and probably won't unless I can find the barrel band with the bayonet lug, it's not like I expect to ever really have an actual need for it.  It's all just nice to have.  At the same time, I feel that having the barrel band with the bayonet lug really improves the overall appearance of the weapon.

So, if I can find one, or hone out the one I have to fit, great.  If not, I can live without it.  

But, no, it's not real likely that I will every spend the bucks for a G.I. issue.  I love my little carbine but I have to admit it's not the most prized weapon in my very small collection.  That honor goes to a brand new Springfield Armory Model#SA9121, an M1A Long Range Match that is essentially an M1A Super Match fitted with the heavyweight Douglas barrel and the M21 style stock with the adjustable cheek piece to which I've also added a Harris bipod and a Leatherwood M1000 "Camputer" 2x-10x ART scope on a Springfield Armory Gen 4 see-through mount that let's me still use the iron sights if I so desire.  That puppy set me back over $5K, and I've got a serious itch to pick up one of the Model 19s that S&W just decided to start producing again; before they change their minds or limit the production run.  And I still don't have a Garand.  So, for now, I'll just try to improve my Universal on the cheap and maybe down the road....who knows?  

But, thanks for the suggestion.     
TwoZero
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2018 at 10:05am
Outstanding! And an impressive wish list you have there.  I didn't know about the 19s return.  Going for the Classic or Performance Center Carry Comp?  That's an interesting sidearm.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RClark9595 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2018 at 3:42pm
Welcome to the club.
There is a whole section in this site on the Universal carbine, www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_universal.html and the man that authored it is an expert on the Universal, I had the good fortune to have met him once. You can email him and he may have the answers you need, usually he knows, and if he doesn't, then he knows someone who does.
I also own a Universal as well and a Winchester USGI Mixmaster. The Universal is for sale on this site if you want to check it out, it's been there for awhile, so far only tire kickers. May pull the add and just keep it, it's a great shooter. www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/for-sale-universal_topic3207.html.
At any rate check the Universal section out, it's a must read for Universal owners.
PS, don't believe 90% of the crap you hear about Universals, it's mostly here say, he said she said kind of stuff, usually they can't tell you exactly why they are so bad, what goes wrong with them, actually they are pretty decent guns, they feel and shoot like the real deal?
FYI, the biggest problem I have found with the Universal is when using bad, cheap or most aftermarket magazines. Don't do it, as with the USGI Carbines, good quality magazines are a must, USGI mags preferred. Don't blame the rifle when using a poor quality magazine, they'll cause failure to feed, jamming and after a time, even mag well wear.
Ron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 11 2018 at 6:34pm
All Are Welcome,
May I ask?
You mention the S&W Model 19......... Is this the Revolver?
If so I hadn't heard about a possible new run. But haven't been paying attention either.
I have 2 Model 19-3 that I love, By far my favorite .357 magnum revolvers

I believe a USGI Hand guard would fit your commercial. A post WWII would save some money, since your not in need of a specific marking.
I replaced a metal guard on a Plainfield with a wood GI for a friends teenage son. The boy named Rocky, wanted more of an authentic look.

As far as making a guard..... This link will show you a hand made HG someone made:

For Universal parts, go here:
https://www.gunpartscorp.com

Then type in this search: bayonet band for universal carbine
It pulled up 4 different Bayo's, New, Finish color, etc

Looks like they are out of the Universal Wood HG's.
You could try a WTB add for 1 here.
Also watch Ebay for a Universal or other Commercial HG.


HTH,
Again Welcome
Charlie-Painter777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 11 2018 at 9:38pm
Rich, welcome to the forum from New Mexico!

Sorry Charlie, a USGI hand guard will not fit a Type II. Universal has a square barrel under the hand guard that interferes. You would have to route out the inside the hand guard to fit. Then, I'm not sure about the length.

Rich, I'm rebuilding a Type II with a wood hand guard and may be interested in trading. PM me if you're interested.
JackP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 12 2018 at 12:18pm
Thx JP,
I've only handled a few Plainfields, never any other type of commercial m1's.
Appreciate the correction.

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twozero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 12 2018 at 6:43pm
Thanks for all who have replied thus far.  I appreciate the feedback, the advice, and the info.

Just to update everyone who might be interested in what progress I make, if any, here is where I am at so far...

I had already been to the gunparts.com website and ordered one of the four barrel bands with bayonet lug that Numrich says are for the Universal.  It's here and it doesn't fit.  The inner diameter of the band is just a tad too small for it to fit and slide smoothly over the barrel.  I could try ordering one of the other three but I suspect they are all sized to GI issue barrel specs and aren't really meant for the universal.  Next step is to call them and ask them to check the inner diameter of the other three they offer to see if any of them will fit over a 5/8" diameter barrel.  At the same time, I will continue to search in hopes of finding one from another source that will fit.  In a perfect world, I will stumble upon an original Universal Part # 510 B which is the one that I wish they had put on my carbine.  In the end, I am already suspecting that all of the above will come to naught.  So, I am already in the process of figuring out how to hone out the one I have from Numrich to make it fit without ruining it in the process.  I have already begun using my Dremel with a sanding drum and it will be a slow process but it looks promising.  

As for the handguard, jackp1028 was exactly correct.  I had already ordered an unfinished handguard from Boyd's Gunstocks, and it is a nice piece.  But, it doesn't fit.  Under the handguard on the Universal, there is a larger square barrel that extends well forward almost to the end of the handguard.  A USGI spec wood one would have to be carved out to fit and the metal tab at the receiver end of the hand guard would have to be removed, repositioned, and riveted or screwed back in.  The overall length is good.  So, that's on the to do list right after I've finished honing out the barrel band.

Fingers crossed. With any luck, I'll get it done this weekend or next.

Rich aka TwoZero
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