Italian M1 Carbine info and Requests

US CARBINE CAL. .30 M1 Back from Italy

Reports of the carbines brought in from Italy and sold by Midway USA have started rolling in. Some members and non-members sharing information have many questions and we thought it best to post that information to here for everyone’s benefit.  These are not the first Italian carbines brought back into the USA so we will recap our findings below as well as present some pictures to better help explain things.

In 2007 the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) had received over 33,000 carbines through the US Army. The carbines came in from Italy with the bolts removed and packaged separately.  Many of the carbines were covered in heavy preservative. The CMP reported them all as “mixmasters”

For those of you reading that are not familiar with the term “mixmaster” I will refer you to the rebuild process where the carbines were stripped down and sorted by the component, gauged, and inspected, followed by refinishing. The assembly process would be to assemble parts that passed inspection and refinish that was at the top of the box, regardless of markings, and use to assemble a complete carbine. These carbines tend to be a wide mix of parts and though they may have some correct parts for the manufacturer it is highly unlikely that an original part would wind up back on the original carbine. There was absolutely no attempt to keep the original parts together.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/postwar.html

In 2007-2008 The Club and some of its members went down to help the CMP with the cleaning and sorting.  The Club opinion was that the Italians took good care of these and there were no signs of neglect. However, all of the buttplates showed heavy wear.

The general condition and finish of the carbines varied greatly. Some appeared to have been refurbished by the Italian Military and then stored after seeing little to no use. Others appeared to be older rebuilds performed by either the US or Italian armories, Issued/used and then stored. The refinish could be a medium to dark gray as well as some that look black.

The black refinishing is believed to have been done by the Italians. A very small number of carbines had the original finish on them. Though a few of these original finish carbines looked new, the majority were quite worn. Some carbines were coated in heavy grease prior to storage while others were very dry with some exhibiting light rust.

Note the missing bolt

As reported by the CMP that all these carbines were mixmasters and assembled with no regards to matching proper parts codes. There were no foreign made parts observed, except some stocks and stock parts, as all of parts were of US manufactured wartime or post war replacements. All of the carbines had the upgrades with T3 barrel bands, adjustable rear sights, flip safeties, and late type magazine catches. There were very few late M1/M2 type trigger housings observed.

These carbines came in with the bolts packed in boxes separate from the carbines. Bolts were originally blued from the factory.  Most of these bolts have been parkerized. Some bolts appeared blued, but they may have been re-blued by the Italians.

Sorting of bolts.

The CMP attempted to match a correct manufacturer bolt to the carbine. Headspace was more important than being correct so they may have had any bolt.

The majority of the stocks observed were of the “potbelly’ variety and possibly beech or birch and possibly of European manufacturer. Potbelly stocks has thicker side walls and a noticeably thicker bottom that hangs down starting just forward of the trigger housing. For more info on stock types:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/stocks.html

Ron Dalhamer reports that may of these stocks had a “tiger stripe” or “flame effect”. Ron shared a picture of a nicely grained stock.

Note the serial number between the oiler cut and the buttplate can be found on some of these returns.

Virtually all of the USGI M1 stocks had some form of rebuild marking on the left side of the stock. Many of these stocks had been upgraded for M2 use. They would remove the bridge inside the stock just forward of the trigger housing and make clearance for a M2 selector switch near the front ring on the left side. All potbelly stocks were manufactured without the bridge and have the selector switch cut.

All of the stocks were low wood, either as made or cut down during a rebuild, Very few had remnants of the original acceptance marks or “crossed cannon" cartouche as the stocks were sanded and probably numerous times over the years.

Most of the European potbelly stocks as well as a number of USGI stocks have the Italian “FAT” inspection cartouche on the right side near the sling well.

Fabbrica d’Armi di Turin

The two numbers under the letters represent the year of rebuild

All the barrels were reported as USGI. Some have a sometimes faint ¼ inch wide FAT stamp with a star over FAT and the year below, these are stamped on the top of the barrel at the rear above the chamber.

Since 2008 there have been reports of a buttplate that is not consistent with any known USGI buttplate. We have this listed at the bottom of our buttplate identification page.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/buttplates.html

So far at least one report of this interesting buttplate was reported on these recent carbines from Midway. We started a thread asking people to check their buttplates to see if you have one of these.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/italian-returns-buttplate-check_topic5527.html?FID=54&PR=3

The easiest way to distinguish this buttplate from a USGI is to count the dots in the continuous row just above screw hole which had 14 dots. USGI buttplates that are in the horizontal orientation all have only 12 dots.

Looking at the Midway sales and with good reporting we may be able to establish a time frame when these carbines were shipped overseas. We are asking anyone reporting to take a good look at their carbines and report the following

1. Are there any rebuild markings or remnants, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/postwar.html

2. Is there a FAT marking or any other markings on the stock?

3. Is the stock a potbelly or a straight stock?

4. is there a FAT marking on the barrel.

5. Is a serial number stamped on the stock?

6. Does the stock have the selector cut?

7. Does the buttplate have 14 dots wide as described above?

8. What color is your bolt and is your bolt refinished.

9. If not filling out a datasheet, what color is the metal finish of the carbine.

You can post this information in this thread or send the information to the address on the data sheet. Pictures always welcome. This information can also be sent directly to the address below if you are not a registered member.

Data sheets are always welcome. Please put Midway at the top of the sheet. We use this information for compiling data that could be used for future articles presenting our findings. We do not share your personal information such as specific serial numbers or who has shared that information.

Data sheets as well as some videos on disassembly/assembly can be found here as well

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/carbine-club-data-sheets_topic26.html

We are also getting many inquiries on the makes of carbines in relation to the serial number. Some are confusing the barrel maker with the manufacturer of the carbine. This is mostly due to an adjustable rear sight obscuring the makers markings. Please look over the serial number charts.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html

If you were lucky enough to get one of the odd variations please let us know. Also check out our post on serial numbers to look for and report.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/serial-numbers-to-look-for-and-report_topic1292.html?FID=73&PR=3

For those with the newsletters that are interested in the finer details as well as some of the rare carbines that the CMP sold see CCNLs 340-13, 341-13, 346-26

2. Is there a FAT marking or any other markings on the stock? No

3. Is the stock a potbelly or a straight stock?  Straight WRA

4. is there a FAT marking on the barrel.  No

5. Is a serial number stamped on the stock?  No

6. Does the stock have the selector cut?  No

7. Does the buttplate have 14 dots wide as described above?  No. 12

8. What color is your bolt and is your bolt refinished.  Blued, Maybe refinished, but if so shows more wear than the matte black finish on the barrel, receiver, etc.

9. What color is the metal finish of the carbine.   Mostly matte black.