The Carbine Collectors Club

Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine


Forum Home Forum Home > The Club > Club Requests and Member Submissions
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Italian M1 Carbine info and Requests

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
 Rating: Topic Rating: 1 Votes, Average 1.00  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 4064
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2021 at 9:49am
Not sure what you are speculating. The mostly correct? The non FAT marked are a mix. Many seem mostly original with the stocks and small parts swapped.

There are several very early carbines that came back to the states that are as delivered for the most part.
Just the same we are seeing some early ones from different locations.

I posted a 7364 that has a heavy roll marking of the numbers, have to look for it.
It is a Bavarian return from the CMP. So that one went to war and wound up in Germany till it was given back to the US Army.
Back to Top
Matt_X View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


Joined: Nov 10 2020
Location: Phila, Penn
Status: Offline
Points: 577
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2021 at 10:24am
I'm speculating on the journey of how these initially ended up in Italy.
It seems the odds are in favor of this carbine being with troops in Europe (or resupply to those in North Africa).
In which case it adds to possibility that these were first used and possibly turned in for repairs by units in Sicily and then Italy. 
If there are late production carbines in the mix, then assuming these are a group, these didn't get into Italian hands until late in the War or post-war.  On the otehr hand, if there are no late production carbines, then its possible these were wartime assistance. 

Back to Top
W5USMC View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Apr 29 2017
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 2533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2021 at 10:38am
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

If there are late production carbines in the mix, then assuming these are a group, these didn't get into Italian hands until late in the War or post-war.  On the other hand, if there are no late production carbines, then its possible these were wartime assistance. 

Matt, according to records the U.S. transferred carbines to Italy via MAP from 1951-1963.
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member
Back to Top
Matt_X View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


Joined: Nov 10 2020
Location: Phila, Penn
Status: Offline
Points: 577
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2021 at 11:50am
But was that the only transfer of carbines to Italian forces? 
Just doing a little searching the web, this author writes.
"After the summer of 1944, the four Combat Groups of Italian Royal Army that participated in the decisive Allied offensive in Italy, were entirely equipped with British, Canadian and American built guns and vehicles."

Could M1 carbines have been amongst that equipment?  I just don't want to close the  door on possibilities if such possibilites are reasonable.
Back to Top
GotSnlB28 View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: WI
Status: Offline
Points: 763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2021 at 4:54pm
I happened to notice a couple of carbines up for sale on Gunbroker a few weeks ago: auction #s 917483620 and 917484306. Seller's description stated they are PW Arms Italian returns that he bought from a dealer who hand selected ~200 like this but there is no picture of the import mark. I did message him and he confirmed the import mark was PW Arms. His story has some bad information too but what I found interesting was the rifles were fully packed in cosmoline. It doesn't look recent, but I suppose if someone had a lot of cosmoline and time.. :) Anyway, I thought it may be of interest to the club if some of these were returned in this condition. I hadn't seen any from this batch reported packed in cosmoline.









Back to Top
Tahoe303 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Jan 12 2016
Location: New Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tahoe303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2021 at 7:34pm
Got the reply from CMP regarding the Inland Carbine with FAT marking:

Was somewhat disappointed in the CMP letter, ALL previous letters have had selling price, any notable parts listed, besides the sale date. Pretty basic info now.

Confirmed complete rifle sold by CMP Dec 13, 2007. (Wonder what the prices were then?)

Inland #732603

With an SG (Saginaw) stamped on the left of the receiver. 
Bbl is an Inland   General Motors Date of 5-43 Muzzle Wear <1.5
Hand guard is early 2 rivet IO Inland and very loose at the nose end.

Stock only has a "FAT 65" rebuild stamp on it and a small "G" stamped in the front of the pistol grip.
Looks like it has the M2 cutout.
Not sure what the finish on the wood is.
The Type 3-barrel band is so tight on the barrel you can hardly slide it forward to release the handguard.

Wrapped around the bottom of the Trigger guard is what looks like an official white ID tape with blue lettering:

"CMP Games, Creedmore Cup Match". 

Don't know if or how the sale date noted coincides with the CMP Games.

Blued Round bolt, all other finish matches and seems like a smooth light gray, all lettering sharp. The only part which has a different deeper dark color is the Type III rear sight and it has bright whitening in the windage lines.

This has an extra-long sling with maybe a 'SIT" stamped on it twice and is held in place by a wooden dowel, which is smaller in diameter than an oiler. I've tried putting an oiler in the slot, then tried both the original sling, a WW 2 USGI sling and an Italian sling and NONE will fit without opening the slot up more. I believe it's an original Italian Stock, no USGI markings, just the "G" on the pistol grip 
I have an IO USGI stock with AA rebuild marks AND an FAT Stamp, the slings all fit through it with oiler in place as they should.
So, debating whether to leave it as is, being originally from CMP assuming they inserted and headspace the bolt. I haven't had time to break things down yet. 
Grind out the sling area to get ANY sling to fit in it or replace the Stock with the USGI Rebuild with FAT stampings of a 1970's date original stock is 1965, I think.
Back to Top
Tahoe303 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Jan 12 2016
Location: New Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tahoe303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2021 at 7:38pm
Well I don't know where my post went regarding your Carbines, sorry. 
Lotta Cosmo, reminds me of a few SKS's I had.

Will be exciting to see whats under neath all that stuff!

Congrats!
Back to Top
W5USMC View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Apr 29 2017
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 2533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2021 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Tahoe303 Tahoe303 wrote:

Confirmed complete rifle sold by CMP Dec 13, 2007. (Wonder what the prices were then?) Inland #732603 

CMP was selling Service Grade Inlands for $495 in 2007/08.
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member
Back to Top
GotSnlB28 View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: WI
Status: Offline
Points: 763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2021 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by Tahoe303 Tahoe303 wrote:

Well I don't know where my post went regarding your Carbines, sorry. 
Lotta Cosmo, reminds me of a few SKS's I had.

Will be exciting to see whats under neath all that stuff!

Congrats!


Oh, I didn't buy either of them I just nabbed the pics and info in case members were interested.
Back to Top
Tahoe303 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Jan 12 2016
Location: New Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tahoe303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 25 2021 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Originally posted by Tahoe303 Tahoe303 wrote:

Confirmed complete rifle sold by CMP Dec 13, 2007. (Wonder what the prices were then?) Inland #732603 

CMP was selling Service Grade Inlands for $495 in 2007/08.

Thanks, always curious what CMP was selling things for.

Any idea what CMP might have sold a Saginaw S.G. Barreled receiver with correct bbl a MV 1.0
I think the date was 2010.
Back to Top
Tahoe303 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Jan 12 2016
Location: New Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tahoe303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 25 2021 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by GotSnlB28 GotSnlB28 wrote:

Originally posted by Tahoe303 Tahoe303 wrote:

Well I don't know where my post went regarding your Carbines, sorry. 
Lotta Cosmo, reminds me of a few SKS's I had.

Will be exciting to see whats under neath all that stuff!

Congrats!


Oh, I didn't buy either of them I just nabbed the pics and info in case members were interested.


Aw gee thought you were going to have all that fun of removing the cosmoline! Looks like a putty knife would be a good starter.Wink
Back to Top
W5USMC View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Apr 29 2017
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 2533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 01 2022 at 12:47pm
Here is an interesting location for the "FAT" marking, on the receiver in front of the rear sight. This picture was posted on the CMP forum by skohler. The carbine is a Standard Products that he purchased at CMP's North store.



Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Quick Reply
Name:

Message:
   NoFollow is applied to all links from this forum
 Enable BBcodes
Security Code:
Code Image - Please contact webmaster if you have problems seeing this image code  Refresh Refresh Image
Powered by Web Wiz CAPTCHA version 4.04 wwf
Copyright ©2005-2013 Web Wiz
Please enter the Security Code exactly as shown in image format.
Cookies must be enabled on your web browser.

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.