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IP stock marking mystery |
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m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Hard to say if it is refinished without seeing more pictures of it.
Is the bolt marked? Does it have what appears to be a punch mark on it? Is the handguard marked? Rear sight marks? |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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Pretty common that most Recoil plates don't match the color of the receivers.
Usually the finish is applied by the parts maker..... And the difference in the metals hardness/final milling tend to take the finish different, thus the no matching color.
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Maybe i'm just seeing things now lol.
What about the rolled receiver markings, did some not get stamped in properly?
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Only took the stock off where is bolt stamp? Handguard marked IR-IP and matches lower stock.
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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More pics I took. Not the best, quick with daylight no flash.
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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The roll marks on carbines at ends sometimes were light, sometimes very deep.
You need to remove slide to see bolt markings. If you take slide off the you can take bolt out. Take pic of rear so we can see what type of firing pin. Sometimes parts missed being marked, however an IP/SG' trigger is easy to figure with a few good pics. You said this was from a museum? Any details? Our northern brothers do find some nice carbines! |
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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I think at Gunboards or somewhere I mentioned Ont Canada, but the seller is from Vancouver area. I will check emails and see if it's mentioned.
I have 1 week inspection period providing I don't do any damage to pins or screw heads so don't want to strip it down. Ok found an email, all he said was a local Military Museum and he's in Vancouver area. They had it last 20 years or so on display and then storage, so no pics on the net I would think. |
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m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Think I see the punch mark on the bolt.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html Being it is in Canada, any Canadian markings? |
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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No Canadian markings. YEs bolt stamp
Thanks for all help on this, but just wondering if you see any problems? Should it have I cut stock because of low ser #? I can do more pics if needed. THis much is confirmed. Stock is high wood and both are original IR-IP. Markings look original. Metals are a mix of IP and SG because of the switch to SG in 43. Could this be a early low ser# that missed the war, stayed stateside and somehow made it to Canada? Sounds weird but strange true data is uncovered all the time with war items. I can strip it down unless it can be done with no damage or marks on the park finish as it's on a 7 day inspection period. Wayne |
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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pics
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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It came out very easy no tools needed.
Everything in heavy gun grease.
Slide is IP Trigger housing IP Hammer SG Bolt is SG not corrosion but gun grease on SG stamp. This is as far as I'm going on strip down. |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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Even though it is an early serial number it does not make it an early gun.
The short version- No IPs were accepted by the government. Their contract was pulled and given to Saginaw. The built carbines were stripped down and with the parts on hand were checked to see what can be put together and shipped out the door. Parts that failed may have been reworked. IP produced the 3 mill block simultaneously, so what is early Generally we use barrel dates in the case of IP. The trend was early dates had more IP parts and later had more S'G' parts. It is possible that the receiver needed some work and this delayed to the point of why there is a oval cut stock. DO not obsess with what it should have, In your case it is probably correct I do not think there are enough carbines in Canada nor are the prices as high that there is the parts swapping and fake parts as here in the USA. Will let you comment to that. I have to check but believe that a S'G' dogleg is not very common. I would expect the trigger , FP, safety, mag catch and small parts to be blued, but cannot make it out from pictures. IP receivers usually have hardness marks as well as letters or numbers at right rear of receiver. What marks and how many punch marks. Bottom front of receiver in front of TH mount there is usually a stamp. Please share what you see. I am not well versed enough to say how carbines wound up in Canada other than lend lease program which we only know of 235 of them and maybe M2s I know the British proof marked firearms and Canada is on a list I saw of proof marks, However a Canadian gunsmith and club member here had told me he has not seen any proofs on a carbine. It may be a time frame where this had stopped? Would love to know why and when. |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
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If OK ?
I'd like to add this link about IP's and markings/barrel dates found on them that Newscotlander had inquired about some years ago. I see 1,77 IP's with 1 and 2 of 43 dated barrels (see link below) It will give good insight to markings found on IP carbines. It's a 5 page thread with plenty of good pictures and questions/theories about IP/S'G'/SG use and supply of receivers. I believe it will be of great help to the OP and others with questions after the take over of IP: HTH's Charlie-Painter777 |
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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I am pretty confident by now this is an unmessed with very limited use all original early or mid run with mostly IP parts and some SG parts. Nothing is shockingly wrong with it. So with that I told the seller it's a done deal and I now own it. When I get time I will clean the storage or factory grease off it and find more markings and strip it down further.
This gun has missed the US combat wars and made it up to Canada, how don't know.
Thanks for all help, you fellas helped me more here then anywhere and you take the M1 carbine history and collecting very seriously. As far as parts being blued, you mean same color as the mag? Very few M1 carbines up here, so fakery is limited but who knows with one click of the mouse something from anywhere in the world is on the doorstep. Buy the gun not the story true, but this makes sense somehow. The seller is not a WW2 collector and he bought them years ago as an investment when the museum was clearing out storage items. So on top of the years he has it plus the museum makes this around 25 years this has not been seen in the collector world. I have the name of the museum but won't name it openly on the forum. I don't want them contacted and bothered with requests to confirm any info etc. IF a member here has access to a data base of serial #'s that might help track the history I can provide it in a PM. Wayne
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Funny you told me just take the slide off and confirm slide and bolt parts and that would mostly determine if original. Now I need to strip off all the grease and check for dozens of little stamps, marks, pings etc?? Nothing is wrong with this so far do I really need to go further? ORiginal IP/SG stock and markings. Original IP/SG stamped metals. Proper Underwood 2/43 barrel. Not refinished. No fake parts. |
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Why Carbines?
Hard Corps Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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Sounds like you have gone far enough. There's really not a ton of things to look for on these little rifles. Nice rifle, I know I'll never have one and that actually doesn't bother me at all since I enjoy looking at other collector's carbines.
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m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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From what I've seen, all the tell tale signs on IP are there. Congrats on the purchase. While it iis odd that such an early serial number has a later barrel and an oval cut stock, it seems to be an anomaly and not a flaw.
Just me, but I would keep the grease on it. Looks like a potential caniddate. Why not fill out a datasheet on it? |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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I was merely pointing out what i would expect as original finish from factory. Further that the grease or lighting of pictures makes it that i cannot tell what the finish is of those parts.
Yes, to looking more like the magazine then rest of carbine, but could be a dull or shiney black. As to the receiver marks, the IP guys love to compare the marks. Mine has M2 on rear right and the "beerbelly" man on bottom, which I think is really a man playing a drum. It's more for you to know the niche of your carbine, however I second the motion for a data sheet. This helps the club research especially if an original as well as helping record for your records what the carbine has. I mentioned possible multiple punch marks near M2 as a correlation to receiver being reworked |
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M1Seeker
On Point Joined: Jun 15 2018 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Thanks I understand, the safety and the mag release are more shiney and different color shade. Trigger looks same as parked. The finish on the metals is not a real black black when compared to the Inland I have. Just very slightly greenish black tint. The slide and hammer is more black.
I will clean off more grease to find markings, doubt I will fire it though.
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m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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New2brass...that is so true. Nice IP’s don’t come around often and when they do IP fans like myself and others do turn up. Nothing like the matte black finish on an IP receiver. Dulite, correct?
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