Inland M2 in Canada For Review

One of my Thompson Submachine Gun related friends is a collector in Canada who often attends our events in Ohio with The American Thompson Association, as well as the Thompson Collectors Association. He is a machine gun collector, one of around 200 remaining private individuals who can own machine guns in Canada. He recently wrote me to tell me of his latest acquisition, which is an Inland M2 Carbine.

It is an Inland Mfg. Division, General Motors gun with a barrel dated 4-45. The serial number is 7101209, and is not an over stamped M1. It's from the second to last Inland serial number block (6,629,884 to 7,234,883), and the barrel date appears logical for that serial number range, and original. It has a beautiful stock on it. I like the repair on the bottom of the stock...It adds character, and I think that a Canadian armorer did it, because of its style, which is often seen on Commonwealth rifle repairs. The repair is also similar in style to one on an Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1 Rifle that is owned by the same collector.

Canada bought some Carbines during the war. Somewhere, I have a copy of a Canadian Technical Data Sheet on the Carbine, which is very similar to other publications that Canada generated for the Thompson, Reising, and Sten Submachine guns. I also have a copy of a Lend Lease document which indicates Canada purchased 3500 Carbines in 1945. I presume this Carbine is one of those, based on the physical evidence, Lend Lease evidence, and also its current location. The stock appears devoid of inspector markings that would likely be present on a U.S. issued Carbine. It does not have an M2 bolt, which I would expect to see, but that is certainly not an issue. Most Carbines have had parts switched for various reasons.

Here are some photos...I uploaded high quality photos to my server, so it may be a little slow to download, but it definitely helps with the detail.









What are your thoughts on this M2? Do any of my assumptions appear incorrect?

I may attempt to do a Carbine Data Sheet on this M2 if my friend has the time and patience to work through it long distance with me...

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

Is it Canadian marked? Even if it isn't that is a sweet MG.

Chris,

It was good seeing you again at OGCA with Chuck last week. You should come to the All Thompson Show and Shoot next weekend at Tracie's.

The stock repair is about an inch and a half forward of the magazine. I need to ask my friend for a better photo of it, but I believe it extends across the width of the stock.

Here is the Lend Lease document to which I referred. I believe it was posted here previously, but I don't recall who originally posted it.



m1a1fan,

I'm not sure if any Canadian markings should be expected on this Carbine. Do you have any previous example photos for reference? I'm away from my books at the moment, so I'm not sure how in depth Larry Ruth may have covered Canadian Lend Lease Carbines, or if any other author has touched on the subject in their books.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

Darn, I was hoping it was yet another Lend Lease document as several have not yet been found.

Ghostman wrote: From what I know of Lend Lease equipment, I would expect to see a "US PROPERTY" stamped somewhere on the rifle, like other Lend Lease weapons, M1911s, Thompson's and Savage made SMLE no. 4s. I would also think it would be noted as M2 carbines, not M1 carbines, on lease paperwork.

Ghostman,

You make some good points, particularly about the M1 designation on the Lend Lease document. I don't think all Lend Lease equipment was necessarily stamped "US Property," though.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

It appears the forum software is horizontally compressing the externally hosted images in my original post. If you would like to see (and download, if you want to) the original images, here are the links:

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/CarbineClub/IMG_1329%20(1).jpg
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http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/CarbineClub/IMG_1335%20(1).jpg

You will need to cut and paste the full URL into your browser.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

David I will see you next Friday .

Seems carbines came to Canada during WW II in two batches, first ones (240 or so) in late '42 or early '43, and then those 3,500 in 1945.

I know of 3 examples of the first lot of lend lease, all were Inlands from the first S/N block, with 11-42 or 12-42 barrels. They are as original, except missing the sling. All have the C Broadarrow marks in the right places, as per the Ruth reference except nothing on the inside of the handguards. Cartouches are present too. These were in very good shape, and I would guess they never went overseas, and were used for firearms training/orientation here in Canada early in WW II.

I have also seen a number of Inland M2 stamped carbines in circulation here, both registered (legal), and ones with muzzle extensions added on and not registered (illegal). These have been around for quite awhile, and I would speculate that they are part of the 3,500 that came in 1945 (for the impending invasion of the Japanese home Islands, along with those Garands listed). No C Broadarrow, or US Gov't property markings or such on these.

These M2's had been converted to S/A by removing the select fire internals, and are normally registered in a special C/A Prohibited classification. Prohib's stay in your gun safe, and you are allowed to take them out and oil, polish & caress them, that's it ..no shooting. Same with any Prohib rifle, Converted Auto or full auto. The ones I've seen all have have the Inland original parts for 7 mil S/N ranges, except for maybe a few with pot belly post WW II stocks. Seen a few with the "2" in the M2 ground off too.

M2's were issued to front line Canadian regiments in the Korean war, but that was in-situ, and were probably given back to U.S. depots over there before our guys came back in 1953.

A flag went up when I saw the flat bolt and early mag catch on this particular M2. We can own ALL the select fire parts up here (no such reg as the BATF has), but illegal to install all of them your carbine. Easy to make an extended trigger housing pin with a slot, and install a switch and 9 spring. I have a few that I have done this with for appearances only.

I am guessing to hold the slide back just enough to prevent accidental discharge. If slide was all the way back and released it may slam fire

Very interesting carbine, I'd like to see a data sheet and more pics of the 2nd slide stop detent which still has me scratching my head.