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Inland Cartouche real or fake |
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kro1970 
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Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Central Florida Status: Offline Points: 301 |
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 Topic: Inland Cartouche real or fakePosted: Jun 24 2018 at 9:47pm |
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I have an Inland highwood stock with this cartouche. It looks too good to be real but when comparing to known original cartouches the details are the same. Let me know your thoughts. All three pictures are of the same cartouche taken at different angles and distances.
  
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Niterace7
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Joined: Nov 30 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: Jun 25 2018 at 12:28am |
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Looks like a fake to me. The stamp may be accurate, but it’s recently applied.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4655 |
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Posted: Jun 25 2018 at 12:52pm |
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can you post a picture of the stock and sling well marks.
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jackp1028
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Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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Posted: Jun 25 2018 at 2:05pm |
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I'm on the fence. If the stock matches the condition of the cartouche then I'd go with legit. Then you probably have the nicest high wood Inland around. If, however, the stock is even slightly worn then I would say you have an example of the best reproduced cartouche I've ever seen.
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JackP
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painter777
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Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1717 |
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Posted: Jun 25 2018 at 4:07pm |
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Well it's definitely not a copy made from the Harrison Template.
I've seen some hard wear on stocks that still have beautiful CC Stamps. I've stripped painted rack numbers off Korean returns to reveal some excellent examples of original CC's. With that said, I often wonder how many 'Real Original Official' CC stamps were used. Was there only 1 stamp that was used for all of Inland's production? I doubt it... Next thought is, Was every stamp they had made up a perfect match? I can't answer that. A new 'Real Original Official' stamp would surely leave a sharper/crisper impression than say 1 that had already been used on 10,000 stocks. And Walnut (like most all woods) has hard areas and softer areas that when stamped can make for a distorted view. To Kro, I know you as a honest man and I tip my hat to you for bringing this out for 'Judgement' But these are the situations I fear, when it comes to pointing out things that could/would help those who make stamps. You could have NOT mentioned that these 3 pictures are of the same marking and just asked for thoughts on number 1, 2 and 3. By doing so you would have got all types of replies. Many just don't have the experience to judge markings, whether they'll admit it or not... who knows. Reminds me of the Inspection Stamp Quiz that Rick B posted over on Milsurps. That quiz fooled many an advanced collector. I'll link it, but just so everyone knows the quiz is about markings on the M1 Garands IIRC: Back to your stamp, When looking over the 3 different pictures, I'm looking over the impression left, while taking the angles and distance in to account. I see a few things but will only bring up what I believe with study most will see: an issue with the Flame, and a issue with the angle on the outer cannons lower trunion. A clear picture of a Inland CC to compare is available if you need me to post or PM to you. Your call, if you want me to post it. VR, Charlie-Painter777 |
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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kro1970
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Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Central Florida Status: Offline Points: 301 |
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Posted: Jun 25 2018 at 9:20pm |
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Pictures of the sling well and others. This cartouche has me stumped also. I have and have seen other known originals and all the details on this cross cannons seemed to match. Especially the shape of the cannons and placement of the buckle in relation to the cannons which is not correct on the known fake cartouches. The main concern is the sharpness of the stamp. I have had this stock for a few years but I hope the counterfeiters are not getting this good or our hobby is doomed.
                      
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painter777
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Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1717 |
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Posted: Jun 25 2018 at 10:16pm |
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Shoulda seen my reaction after I left a Hi-wood RSG S'G' stock on the table, planning to get pictures of it. I left for a few hours and came home to the neighbor lady and her 10~ year old boy here visiting the wife. The boy was quietly sitting at the table with a Bic pen that still had the cap on it.
No worries I thought at first, since I seen the cap on the pen, but when picking the stock up I could see where he was 'Tracing' over the Boxed S'G' and the Crossed Cannons Stamp. Yea......... I know what sick feels like. Kro, Is what it is... A crossed cannons stamp. VR, CH-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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jackp1028
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Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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Posted: Jun 25 2018 at 10:37pm |
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CC doesn't match the condition of the stock. Also, after comparing it to a series of images of known good Inland CC's there is one obvious difference. PM me and I will share what I see.
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JackP
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MilsurpsUSGI
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Posted: Jun 26 2018 at 1:56am |
I think you've nailed it. The stock appears to be a "restoration." I believe the "circled P" on the grip was also part of the process. - Bob |
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Lancer
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Joined: Feb 16 2016 Location: Freeland, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Posted: Jul 08 2018 at 2:32am |
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Not to high jack this thread but I have, some where, a complete set of dies for the carbine cartouches and other stampings on the stocks. They are made of oak with steel dies glued to one end of the oak handle. I've never used them except to check one or two cartouches on some carbine stocks and they are pretty accurate. I bought them on a lark on GreedBay many years ago so they're still new in the box.
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kro1970
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Posted: Jul 08 2018 at 8:37am |
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I've seen those dies for sale on eBay but they seem to be copies of the Harrison book pictures and they have some unique discrepancies when compared to originals. This carthouche is not one of those that's what makes it scary that there may be some really accurate fakes coming out.
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kro1970 wrote: