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IBM CARBINE BOLT

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mikeurbas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikeurbas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: IBM CARBINE BOLT
    Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 7:46am
I recently picked up an IBM carbine with the serial range 39497XX. it is in excellent shape, with a really clean stock and hand guard, with just one small repair area near the butt plate, a barrel and receiver that looks recently re-parked, and parts that all seem correct. bore is shiny, although i still need to check muzzle erosion. the one thing that dose not match is the flat bolt ?  does anyone know if its possible for the flat bolt to be original?  thanks all for any input, mike.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 8:10am
Welcome to the forum.  Flat bolts were predecessors to the round but there may have been some later production rifles with round.  Seems like they went to round bolts to cut down on production time.  Others will be able to confirm or clarify this.

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Dan Pinto, Moderator +, Photo Editor+

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 12:19pm
Is the bolt blued or parkerized?
your carbine was one of the last 20k made. I would expect to see a round bolt on it, However it is quite possible that a late carbine could have a flat bolt.
You mention that it looks reparked, which if this is the case it might be hard to determine if any of the parts are original.
A great many collectors have corrected carbines over the years.
 
Pictures always help. A few questions, Does it have a bayonet lug? flip sight or an adjustable sight.
Is the safety a push type or a rotary/flip type?
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mikeurbas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikeurbas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 5:08pm
it has all the early parts i.e. two rivet hand guard, type 2 barrel band, push button safety, and early flip sight. also, it doesnt have any arsenal rebuild markings on the stock, just a visible B in the sling well and a cannon cartouche on right side of stock. also, there is an N stamped on the bottom of the pistol grip.
 
also, the barrel is not dated, and has a P proof mark 4" from the handguard. all parts seem to be coded to IBM.
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mikeurbas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikeurbas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 5:53pm
i tried uploading pictures, and it said they were to big?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 6:02pm
Mike,
Look under the (Registration Help /Rules/ Tutorials/New Member Introductions) section of this forum. There are good instructions on posting pics.

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mikeurbas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikeurbas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 6:04pm
thanks.

mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 11 2018 at 7:56pm
I resize to 720 pix with the "Maintain aspect ration" checked. Here's the link to instructions.   http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/picture-editing-on-pc-with-paint_topic2820.html
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Dan Pinto, Moderator +, Photo Editor+

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2018 at 12:00pm
Mike, you can email me and i will install in your file.

Dan@uscarbinecal30.com

As to how you use the word "early" in context to parts.....

With the exception of Winchester and Inland all carbine contracts were cancelled in 4-44, though rockola was permitted an extra month for Gov to recoup loses.
IBM delivered carbines late 43 to early 44

In that short time several changes were made. As mentioned above it was one of the last 20k that IBM produced.

The type 2 band some would say is a late feature or transitional. I would also expect to see this on your carbine if as left factory.
The 2 rivet hand guard is expected.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnnyk101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 1:18pm
I have an IBM, but earlier than yours ( 3877xxx) that has  a flat bolt. I found some info you may find helpful.  According to the uscarbinecal30m1 web site, yours should be a round bolt. 
IBMBoltType 2SB, AOB3651520 - 3899999Flat bolt.
IBMBoltType 3AOB, EM-B, Bx, SB3900000 - 4000999Round bolt. Bx, x = numeric digit(s).

Hope this helps, John
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mikeurbas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikeurbas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2018 at 10:06pm
so, it seems someone changed out the bolt. why, i have no idea? but its still a nice carbine, that i am very glad to own!
mike
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Dan Pinto, Moderator +, Photo Editor+

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2018 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by johnnyk101 johnnyk101 wrote:

I have an IBM, but earlier than yours ( 3877xxx) that has  a flat bolt. I found some info you may find helpful.  According to the uscarbinecal30m1 web site, yours should be a round bolt. 
IBMBoltType 2SB, AOB3651520 - 3899999Flat bolt.
IBMBoltType 3AOB, EM-B, Bx, SB3900000 - 4000999Round bolt. Bx, x = numeric digit(s).

Hope this helps, John

John, that website is nice, but only as accurate as Reisch, reason being is it appears to be a direct copy of information with the same inaccuracies.  

Think about it, At exactly 3900000 they stopped using flat bolts and went to the round????????

CCNL 329-5 shows that in the 3744xxx-3849xxx both the flat and round bolt were in use, that is a pretty big overlap! After 3849xxx the round bolt was more common, but not exclusive.

To understand the IBM bolt saga you would have to look into the fall of 1943 then IBM was having serious problems with Auto Ordnance and its productions of bolts, slides and receivers. ( i believe there is a post about this if anyone wants to search it out)

Further some may have observed that some IBM round bolts have an X on top of them. These are believed to be transitional round bolts as they do not have all of the round bolt revisions. Further reading can be found in WB and CCNL 206.

So even though the OPs gun has a flat bolt it may be original to the gun (for other reasons as well).
This is where pictures may tell a fuller story.
 My offer still stands that you can send me pictures and I will install them in your folder to post.

Another note on what a carbine "Should have", keep in mind with the amount produced in the short time frame that many exceptions to the rules have been found. If anyone comes across an a correct looking carbine with a piece or two that appears out of place DO NOT remove or replace  history until you are aware of the facts and possibility. Further, reporting these things really helps in club research. 
In newsworthy section read "expect the unexpected" for one such finding.
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Dave Tennent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Tennent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2018 at 6:55pm
FYI-Here are two photos of an AOB marked IBM round bolt with an X
Dave
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