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H 110 powder and W 296 |
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David Milisock 
On Point 
Joined: Aug 03 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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 Posted: Feb 07 2023 at 9:56am |
Not until I got to 16 grains of LilGun. The +300 FPS over factory Federal ammunition velocities improves the in close performance. With magnum primers winter performance was improved, however the 30 Carbine is still limited to 200 yards for high reliability in terms of hits. H110 did not perform will for me in winter even with magnum primers, it worked with no stoppages but it had wider variations in velocities and ejection went all over the place. Winter testing went down to 10 degrees F. I've been using LilGun for some time now, I switched from H110. LilGun is one step faster on the burn rate chart than H110. The 30 Carbine gas port is pretty close to the chamber and I had used H110 for years for various cartridges and the 30 Carbine.
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David Milisock
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Matt_X
Grunt 
Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 693 |
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Posted: Feb 07 2023 at 8:36pm |
Well with a report or rumor that may be relevant to me, I like to see if I can turn up some source material. In some ways no different than historical research. If its a government law or regulation, those are all public. Regs typically go through public comment periods before implementation. So there might be an original version and a revised version. So for example the restrictions on Russian made goods - I haven't looked it up, but I don't think it would be hard to find. Now for a commerical item, from a specific company, often these days they will post info on their website. Looking at PPU's US website, I'm not finding anything to indicate their products are not available. If it makes you feel better I bought some PPU .30 carbine not long ago. They probably made a batch after catching up with the high demand stuff. It wasn't on the shelves long. |
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Jond41403
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Joined: Feb 21 2021 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 212 |
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Posted: Feb 07 2023 at 11:45pm |
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Yes thank you, that does make me feel a little better. I have loved PPU ammunition ever since I got into Milsurps over a decade ago. Every caliber I've tried of theirs has performed flawlessly. Luckily I have stockpiles of it, but we all know when shooting,stockpiles don't stay stockpiles forever haha
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Lightning330
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Joined: Aug 22 2018 Location: Page, AZ 86040 Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Posted: Feb 08 2023 at 7:38pm |
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This is great. I love how this post has grown with discussion. PPU for me as a personal choice for brass and actual shelf loads. I prefer reloading my own, but when they hit 5-6 reloads. I toss them and get PPU shelf again for start-overs. My Acc #9 at 12.5 seems to be a close match so its all happy shooting, but I do now have the W 296 to use and try. I don't want to waste or deny the possible. Never say never until you try it.
In general. Where is your normal cut off point on brass? Minus load and crimp variables. Just the general time frame of use. Love the plate shoots at 100 and 200 yards. Very nice carbines as well. I have a nice 10" swinging chain steel plate that I want to try. But at my local suburban gun range, it's all about working with others and their down time while you set up and tear down. Everyone works together, but you carry guilt as well. Hence: I have had it 2 years and never set it up. It's all good stuff guys and a great read full of good and possible info for me.
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Lightning 330
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David Milisock
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Joined: Aug 03 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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Posted: Feb 09 2023 at 10:24am |
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Interesting that so many people move the same way, I reload mostly but when PPU was inexpensive I bought 1,000 rounds, which when I shot a box for testing it shot pretty good. I figure I have a source for brass for awhile.
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David Milisock
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az30cal
Recruit 
Joined: Jan 31 2023 Location: Page, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2023 at 11:36am |
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New to the forum, first post, and have enjoyed reading Lightning's questions
 and all the responses. Lot to learn, and loving my first 30 cal!
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jackp1028
Hard Corps 
Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1202 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2023 at 11:46am |
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Hey Bill, welcome to the Club from New Mexico!
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JackP
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Lightning330
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Joined: Aug 22 2018 Location: Page, AZ 86040 Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2023 at 2:14pm |
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Welcome ole buddy. Glad your in the mix now.
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Lightning 330
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CGG-1943
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Joined: Nov 09 2022 Location: DC, MD, VA Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2023 at 7:42pm |
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David, question on your switch to Lil Gun. Can you explain a little more why the faster burn rate of Lil Gun is preferable? Is it a matter of getting more combustion before the bullet has passed the gas port, or is it more about the improved muzzle velocity in the cold weather?
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Chris
NPM, Early 1943 |
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David Milisock
On Point
Joined: Aug 03 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2023 at 10:34am |
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I made the change years ago when I was shooting much higher volumes of ammunition because of a couple reasons. At that time a lighter load of LilGun compared to a lighter load of H110, (for less hard on the action higher volume tactical practice) shot cleaner and (to my perception) produced a noticeable difference in barrel heat after a 10 or 20 shot string. Using LilGun allowed me to replace H110 as it was good in my other cartridges but beware it's limited to under 50'000 PSI. At higher pressures it can produce extreme flame temperatures and cause gauling in revolver cylinders.
I decided to give up the tactical shooting and completely rebuilt my rifles and have them and my ammunition inventory setup as PDW/Truck rifles. That process had me testing H110, LilGun and lubricants for extreme cold and heat. A load that's worked for cold weather may produce excessive pressure at 100+ degrees. Also from my experiance and talking to WWII and Korean War veterans cold weather performance was a problem, however to say it as I see it, the rifles in WWII seemed to have less issues in the cold than those used in Korea. I'd think that Howa and FN rebuilds were not as up to snuff as the newly built rifles and the ammunition quality was low and possibly susceptible to the cold. My testing utilizing cold storage and wet/icy winter conditions had my rifles working cleaner and loads have less extreme spreads in velocity with LilGun and magnum primers. The M1 Carbine with the gas port position is much like a long barreled handgun. It (as it should be for a defence rifle) is over gassed and produces powder residue in the action. That causes issues with contaminating lubricants in the cold. A grease or oil that does not freeze up in the extreme cold liquefied quickly becomes contaminated with powder residue and can after cooling render a rifle less reliable or inoperable. I have tested moly lubricants against various other types and found that reasonable people have good arguments both ways. With extreme cold, clean and lubricated rifles both types of lubricants feel a bit stiff at startup but function flawlessly. After firing 100 rounds and placed back into the freezer for 3 hours the dry lubricated rifle showed little powder build up and functioned flawlessly for another 100 rounds. The rifles with better greases were more dirty but still functioned flawlessly for another 100 rounds. In the end I felt the moly lubricants were cleaner to the shooter but provided no better service. In the end any choice still requires the shooter to protect the rifle in the field from icing and to regularly clean the metal well for long term service.
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David Milisock
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CGG-1943
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Joined: Nov 09 2022 Location: DC, MD, VA Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2023 at 8:18pm |
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I appreciate the extra detail! I'm thinking about getting into reloading, and I want to consider cold weather issues, since I will be regularly shooting when it is below freezing.
Side note, I've owned my carbine for several years, but I haven't had an opportunity to shoot it until this past December/January. I was very excited to get it out to the range. I went out in the cold back around the new year and shot some factory loaded PPU. I picked the nicest day I could (it was about 20 when I was shooting, while the rest of the week was between -10 and 15). The PPU performed well. I had a few failure to feed out of ~200 rounds, but I think that was due to an older spring in one of my mags (unfired rounds would stove pipe). The carbine was oiled up with some Hoppes No9 (their oil, not the grease), and I didn't notice any issues with moisture/ice build up.
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Chris
NPM, Early 1943 |
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David Milisock
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Joined: Aug 03 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2023 at 10:39pm |
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The biggest problem I've encountered is the lubricants getting stiff after the first string of fire. Moly does not do that but it offers no moisture protection. It however is much cleaner, (smells less) but with intelligent handling the rifle there's no issues. I carry a parka to protect myself and the rifles from winter conditions.
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David Milisock
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David Milisock wrote: