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Prototype Oilers?

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carbinekid View Drop Down
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    Posted: Sep 15 2022 at 2:11pm
A while back I saved a photo that was posted of a nickel plated oiler that was said to be a prototype piece. It was stamped with an “I” on top of the cap. Now just this week I saw another identical oiler on eBay, this time with a “0” stamped on top. 

Anyone know the real story on these?

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2217/5D379A90-AB92-46A3-B7ED-DB967F9660E6.jpg
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2217/E9E99EE4-E6D8-4244-A6F3-83A7792F78E2.jpg
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2217/11A44A25-B6B1-43DD-B57F-9BC206F355A4.jpg


Edited by newsman3 - Nov 29 2022 at 9:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 15 2022 at 6:22pm
I also saw that O marked oiler the other day, had me wondering also. As far as the oiler with the I on top check out CCNL 169, it is mentioned in a "spotters report". Also check out the picture of Winchester's 2nd prototype on pages 34 and 35 of War Baby, it shows an oiler that looks similar to these. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 15 2022 at 9:00pm
Nenel3 from france had box of the O marked ones couple years back--I have the I marked one and also bought one of the O marked ones he was selling--identical just different letters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 15 2022 at 9:21pm
So, what are they really Marcus? Prototypes? Or for something else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 16 2022 at 6:00pm
if were prototypes they would have been marked for winchester I would think as Humeston and puglesy had patents for the stock oiler cut and the large head oiler-I was in contact with Humestons grandson who remembers playing with the large head oilers at his grandfathers house but he could never find any of them-I have fotos of the patent-not sure which book was in-my guess is simply a oiler for something else and they then made stock work for it-the foto of patent shows head different to boot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 16 2022 at 6:10pm
and we keep forgetting a nickled plated oiler would stick out and cause flashes giving a soldiers position away
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sawbones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2022 at 2:50pm
I bought a QHMC a few months ago came w/ a nickled oiler stamped w/ circled IS.  Presumably International Silver.  Have 2 NOS 15 rnd mags stamped IS I took out of the cosmoline paper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2022 at 11:04pm
The following are Marcus' pictures


Both O and I have been observed.


note the end of the dipper.

Lets look at the Humeston patent. Look at the end of the dipper. It is shaped like the USGI dipper
note the red arrow showing near the top of the oiler is a washer type part. The hole is just a little bigger then the dipper. This would prevent all the oil from spilling out. It also gives a surface area for the leather washer to create a gasket so oil does not leak out.


What the auction pictures above do not show is the opening of the oiler. It is just a tube, no dipper hole or washer.

Marcus had pointed out the nickel color may attract attention. Some would say the British had nickel oilers, but they were not in the side of the stock.

next is the fitment in the I-cut

Notice how it sits proud at the cap. I doubt a sling would fit around it. Winchester I-cut stocks had deeper end cuts, so it may have fit better?

If a prototype then why do these pop up from time to time? How would a box wind up in the hands of a French surplus dealer?

I am not saying this is not an oiler of some sort, but skeptical if this is the Humeston oiler in the patent.

There is another thread where I posted the newsletters and more info. If anyone finds that post please link it here.

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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 18 2022 at 10:48am
As to the Humeston oiler, 
This is a picture of the Winchester Caliber .30 Light Rifle with the prototype oiler

anyone have any other observations?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jangle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 18 2022 at 12:30pm
Just stating the obvious between the Humeston prototype with the raised slotted end cap for screwdriver/rimmed cartridge slot vs Marcus' oiler. 
 
As Dan mentions in the photo of the .30 light rifle, it seems to show the glimmer of the shining raised end cap of the Humeston prototype oiler.

Maybe another revised patent drawing out there somewhere of these flat capped O & I oilers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2022 at 2:15pm
The US Krag rifles had similar oilers that fit in the end of the buttstock.
I am not sure of the diameter, but the length is over 3 inches while the M1 carbine oiler is about an inch shorter.
Krag Oiler

Carbine Oiler


Note the tip of the carbine oiler above and the Krag below.
The threaded portion of the Krag appears to be smaller

Take a look at how the oiler opening is smaller than the diameter of the tube.
Below look how the carbine oiler tube is just threaded. The tube if flared making it look thicker than it is. This is to give the gasket some surface area to seal.


Oiler caps and seals below. Krag on the left. Carbine on the right.
Though they are scaled to each other it is unknown to me if they have the same diameter caps.


Looking online at Krag oilers I see they had several different knurls to them.

Maybe it is possible that in pre-production that ordnance had some short Krag oilers made up, or maybe there was a short oiler that was used for the Krag.

If anyone has a Krag oiler it would be appreciated if you can take some measurements.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dirty30Carbine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2022 at 1:42pm
I recently purchased both the I and O marked off an Ebay auction, came to $31 shipped. I plan to post photos when I have a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2022 at 6:22pm
[QUOTE=New2brass]


I noticed Edwin Pugsley is listed as an inventor on the oiler patent. That name should be familiar here.

In my personal collection, I have his business card, and some correspondence with him associated with the Hyde 35 Submachine Gun. (aka ABC Automatic Hand Machine Gun) At the time, he was Vice President of Winchester, before he became CEO.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2022 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by Dirty30Carbine Dirty30Carbine wrote:

I recently purchased both the I and O marked off an Ebay auction, came to $31 shipped. I plan to post photos when I have a chance

When you receive them, I am very curious to know what it looks like may have been in the one that has the "I" on top. From the pictures that were on ebay it looked like it may have once contained ink. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dirty30Carbine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2022 at 12:34pm
I received them a couple days ago. I’ll take a much better look at them when I get home today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2023 at 5:28pm
So another one of these mystery oilers has surfaced. Same as the others posted, but with unmarked cap. I personally doubt these have anything to do with carbines and the similarity is purely coincidental.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2023 at 10:55am
Originally posted by carbinekid carbinekid wrote:

I personally doubt these have anything to do with carbines and the similarity is purely coincidental.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2023 at 8:58pm
I'm wondering if these aren't oilers for British Enfields.

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