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30rd mags marked AYP

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Abel4287 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Feb 10 2022 at 6:05pm
I picked up three of these they seem robust. Anyone else have experience with them?these m
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abel4287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2022 at 6:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abel4287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2022 at 6:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2022 at 6:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abel4287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2022 at 7:03pm
Thank you sir.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2022 at 11:01pm
That was a long time ago. As a contrast, We have the "mystery Solved" on the Church steeple 30rd magazine, backed by evidence and imagery of that evidence. Not so with the FN AYP marked 30 rounders. I'm still waiting / searching for the evidence / proof of the AYP mag heritage as an FN manufactured item.... I dont think it exists. Someone mentioned Danish, I'm interested, what's the intel on possibly Danish? R/S JB   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2022 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by thirtyround thirtyround wrote:

That was a long time ago. As a contrast, We have the "mystery Solved" on the Church steeple 30rd magazine, backed by evidence and imagery of that evidence. Not so with the FN AYP marked 30 rounders. I'm still waiting / searching for the evidence / proof of the AYP mag heritage as an FN manufactured item.... I dont think it exists. Someone mentioned Danish, I'm interested, what's the intel on possibly Danish? R/S JB   


Rest thy weary fingers, recruit, it's FN.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 12:04am
Wonderful....I'd like to believe that to, really like to see some evidence to support your statement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abel4287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 9:43am
I can tell you the ones I picked seem to be built to military grade  , haven’t used them yet but will give feedback when I do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:



Rest thy weary fingers, recruit, it's FN.

He is just lobbing stink bombs.

IN CCNL 265 Nov 1998 there was an update on the 30 round magazines by Larry Horner, Liberty Armory.

It starts with an interview with Tony Scherer who produced over 1.8 million commercial magazines.
In the interview he mention selling magazines in the early 60 to a company he believes was a CIA front, as well as selling to an exporter.

Later in the CCNL was a report of AYP magazines. This is the first report of the AYP magazines I know of.
These were being sold by Northridge.  They stated "the magazines are part os a large shipment of US-origin parts imported from Belgium"

Let that sink in for a minute.

Larry states " I recently examined over 3400 30-round magazines that were part of a shipment that originated in Europe" In those he observed USGI as well as some Scherer magazines.

In 2005 the club revisited the 30 round magazines in CCNL 332 by J.B. Powers and Bill Ricca.
In regards to the AYP magazines "It was thought by some to be of Belgian origin, and there was some speculation earlier that it might be USGI"

Somewhere along the line someone put together that if from Belgium that it must have been done by FN.  There is no proof that AYP is made by FN or made in Belgium.

Somethings to consider. FN produced magazines for firearms before, during, and after WW2.
Markings that I observed from various arms have the FN marking in forms of their script logo to just F.N. with the caliber listed under it at times.

The AYP magazine is reported somewhere between commercial and USGI as far as quality goes. Would FN make a magazine that was not up to standards?

I have not seen any other firearm part or accessory marked AYP other than 30 round carbine magazines. Maybe someone can shed some light on other items marked AYP.


Why would FN mark the magazines with something other than how they are know for marking items made by them?
If you do some poking around you will find they made things other than firearms.




Edited by New2brass - Feb 12 2022 at 2:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 12:08pm
The 30 round magazine info link below is posted on the CMP webpage (not the forum) under M1 Carbine Resources. Does anyone have any idea who may have authored it? It states AYP mags are "FN manufactured for Belgium/Holland". Was the writer of this page basing this on a fact or was he just repeating what he had heard? Still need hard evidence on this one.



Edited by W5USMC - Feb 12 2022 at 8:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 12:14pm
Thanks for the info,
    I started the original thread years ago. I did so to hopefully gain the source of the confirmation of the AYP magazines origin. Originally back then, I thought CMP had possibly found an originally marked box, or documents etc. None - just a statement. I like the history, hence I'm poking the fire again after 5 years.

    I own 10 of these fine magazines, and an enormous number of USGI originals acquired over the last 40 plus years.
    These AYP mags are the creme of the crop in my opinion, rugged, robust and reliable.
    As originally stated, and now with some the info above, (And Thanks for that post), its does make sense they were made by FN, as the quality is superb. My opinion only.... But only FN (the whole of europe at the time) could have manufactured such a fine quality magazine.     
    Originally I debated that they were manufacture for the French as they were starting to be heavily engaged in indochina/Veitnam. Thet took possession and used thousands of US M1/M2 Carbines. I cant see any other European country contracting a run from FN (or any other entity) that time in history.
    Nevertheless, our evidence remains an educated assumption so far that I will admit, based on info in above post ...In all probability is true.
    With that said, I'll keep looking for that physical jewel that confirms beyond a doubt FN manufacture.
    Like I said, I love the history, the very deep detail of it.
    Semper Fi, JB
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thirtyround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 12:18pm
This is why I started the original thread...
    Back in 2016, I called Wayne at CMP about this confirmation, however we had a great discussion but no evidence was presented... so I kept looking, asking, inquiring...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by thirtyround thirtyround wrote:

its does make sense they were made by FN, as the quality is superb.
    


Based on what? What proof is there that they were actually made in Belgium? Even if made in Belgium, how do we get AYP from FN?

As to superb quality.

Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

The AYP magazine is reported somewhere between commercial and USGI as far as quality goes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 3:33pm
Found the below on an Italian website.

"The following are William J. Ricca's notes on some commercially-made 30 rounders: 

AYP - Nobody has been able to prove anything military about [the origin of] these. The story was originally they were G.I. That was blown away and the story changed to Belgium Mfg. [Editor's note: Others say Dutch or perhaps Greek.] A source at Northridge told me that they were made by Northridge and are a continuing product. Missing the crimp on the front fold."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

[QUOTE=Why Carbines?]

Rest thy weary fingers, recruit, it's FN.

He is just lobbing stink bombs.

IN CCNL 265 Nov 1998 there was an update on the 30 round magazines by Larry Horner, Liberty Armory.

It starts with an interview with Tony Scherer who produced over 1.8 million commercial magazines.
In the interview he mention selling magazines in the early 60 to a company he believes was a CIA front, as well as selling to an exporter.

Later in the CCNL was a report of AYP magazines. This is the first report of the AYP magazines I know of.
These were being sold by Northridge.  They stated "the magazines are part os a large shipment of US-origin parts imported from Belgium"

Let that sink in for a minute.

Larry states " I recently examined over 3400 30-round magazines that were part of a shipment that originated in Europe" In those he observed USGI as well as some Scherer magazines.

In 2005 the club revisited the 30 round magazines in CCNL 332 by J.B. Powers and Bill Ricca.
In regards to the AYP magazines "It was thought by some to be of Belgian origin, and there was some speculation earlier that it might be USGI"

Somewhere along the line someone put together that if from Belgium that it must have been done by FN.  There is no proof that AYP is made by FN or made in Belgium.

Somethings to consider. FN produced magazines for firearms before, during, and after WW2.
Markings that I observed from various arms have the FN marking in forms of their script logo to just F.N. with the caliber listed under it at times.

The AYP magazine is reported somewhere between commercial and USGI as far as quality goes. Would FN make a magazine that was not up to standards?

I have not seen any other firearm part or accessory marked AYP other than 30 round carbine magazines. Maybe someone can shed some light on other items marked AYP.


Why would FN mark the magazines with something other than how they are know for marking items made by them?
If you do some poking around you will find they made things other than firearms.




That was not a stink bomb, that was an innocent nose tweak!

BTW, wasn't part of the lore of the AYP mags that they sat around so long that in storage that corrosion set in and some had to be refinished? Can't remember where I saw that but it's not that important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2022 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

[QUOTE=New2brass]
[QUOTE=Why Carbines?]

BTW, wasn't part of the lore of the AYP mags that they sat around so long that in storage that corrosion set in and some had to be refinished? Can't remember where I saw that but it's not that important.

@ Whycarbines,
You probably seen this,


'A lot of AYP magazines suffered some storage corrosion and are sold as "new" after being reblued. If buying without seeing the product, the purchaser should establish if they are actually new or corroded and then reblued. The reblued ones are obvious because the coloration is slightly to mostly mottled and there are pits or light corrosion blemishes blued over. The insides are still perfect on every one looked at even with outside tube corrosion.'

On Dec 7, Milsurps lost a lot of picture links.
In 2013 there was a post by Ablationman that showed Larry Horners 30 and 15 rd magazine collection displays. IIRC it was every mag made. But now with no pictures it's pretty much a dead link. I wish I had saved the pictures. It was a amazing collection. IDK who owns it now but I believe I had a old email from Tommy Horner where he was looking to recover it, but I'm not sure.

I rarely used 30rd mags. The hardbacks and split backs I save for the collection. I use the J mags if I'm itching for a 30.

About AYP's, seems by now our Belgian and Danish friends could have dug up some info if made by FN. Or Mr. Ricca with all his contract research work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pchanu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 15 2022 at 8:28am
I do not know if they are really from Belgium, but I have many of them, and they are actually the easiest 30-rd mags we can find in France, usually they have big traces of usage, guess they had been used during decades! 
We may find some "J" or "M2" but in numbers far away from the "AYP". 
It is also said here in France it is Belgian stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 02 2022 at 7:36am
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

On Dec 7, Milsurps lost a lot of picture links.
In 2013 there was a post by Ablationman that showed Larry Horners 30 and 15 rd magazine collection displays. IIRC it was every mag made. But now with no pictures it's pretty much a dead link. I wish I had saved the pictures. It was a amazing collection. IDK who owns it now but I believe I had a old email from Tommy Horner where he was looking to recover it, but I'm not sure.

Charlie-P777


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxD7_0bE5KU
6:40 mark

RIP Larry Horner
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