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New AOM130 feed issues

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mwsalter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mwsalter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New AOM130 feed issues
    Posted: May 25 2021 at 10:19pm
Mike here.  In 2020 I purchased an Auto-Ordinance M1.  When I received it, I took it to the range, and had nothing but feed/chamber and ejection issues.  I have yet to successfully shoot a full mag without issues.  I sent it back to Kahr Arms service, and they basically said there wasn't a problem they could find.  When I told them I was using Korean ammo, they suggested I use something else.  I purchased some Federal ammo, and had the same exact issues.  I called service back, and they told me they use Hornady ammo.  I told them that the Federal ammo met the specs for the carbine, and I sent it back to them a 2nd time.  They said they fired 90 rounds thru it successfully.  I asked them if they could test it with Federal ammo, but after they couldn't obtain any (ammo shortage), I had them return the weapon to me. I tested the carbine and made a video of the test. The first round chambered, fired and ejected. After that, the rounds wouldn't chamber correctly. I spoke with a gunsmith on the phone about it, and he suggested that the chamber might need to be reamed, as when I attempted to manually drop a round in the chamber, it would not fit. I am in the process of trying to find a gunsmith in Idaho that I can take it to. Needless to say my frustration level is rising. I have yet to be able to fire a full magazine thru my brand new carbine.

I am providing a link to my test video in the hopes that someone more familiar with this weapon might have a few suggestions. This is not my first semi-auto. And I had no problems like this in boot with the M14, M60 and M!6. I am 70 and a little slower, so bear with me during the video.

Thanks in advance for any help.
--
Mike
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DonFlynn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 10:43pm
Boy, that brings back memories (and not good ones, I owned a AO 2008 same issues and same response from AO)

Try this


I never did get my POS AO to run right. I ended up trading it to a reenactor who wanted a blank firing gun and had a Blue Sky Marked USGI. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 11:58pm

MWSalter, Welcome,

I'm surprised at how much finish loss there is on the right side Op slide Rail.
Try some Oil or lightly grease there to limit any friction.

Shame how they treated you. So they ran 90rds without a hic cup ? I say BS.
I wish you the best of luck getting it up and running.
Please keep us updated.

@Don,
Nice Link, I hope it helps the OP.

Anyone think Jim's review of the Inland Mfg Carbines may help the OP?
If so I could search for the Topic on Milsurps.

Ch-P777

Edit to Add: @Mike Salter... here's a link you can read about break in period issues with the AO:
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_kahr.html

Living Free because of those that serve.....


Edited by sleeplessnashadow - Dec 21 2023 at 6:39pm
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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 6:06am
First of all for your safety, I suggest you do not continue to drop the hammer on a round that you can obviously see has not properly chambered. The bolt might be rotated enough to prevent an out-of-battery discharge, but actually fire and crack a bolt lug, or worse. It’s encouraging to see the bridge-cut safety is obviously working....for the time being anyway. 

Many of us here can make suggestions, but it’s difficult to diagnose without actually examining the carbine. It seems to be feeding properly, but there is a head space issue, or a rub somewhere preventing bolt rotation. It’s doubtful you are shooting ammo too long, since you have tried multiple brands.

The head space for sure needs to be checked. It might be a shallow chamber, but could be other things. I would not continue to try and make it work. It needs to be looked at by a competent smith, or someone knowledgeable about carbines. 


Edited by floydthecat - May 26 2021 at 7:20am
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David Milisock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 7:26am
Take it to a competent gun smith and have it checked. Head space chamber and feed ramp in particular. 
David Milisock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 9:06am
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

First of all for your safety, I suggest you do not continue to drop the hammer on a round that you can obviously see has not properly chambered. The bolt might be rotated enough to prevent an out-of-battery discharge, but actually fire and crack a bolt lug, or worse. It’s encouraging to see the bridge-cut safety is obviously working....for the time being anyway.


What he said!

Did you look at the stuck rounds that you ejected to see if it was crimped or scored?

I would be looking for a refund or a replacement!
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DonFlynn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 10:13am
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

MWSalter, Welcome,

Shame how they treated you. So they ran 90rds without a hic cup ? I say BS.
I wish you the best of luck getting it up and running.
Please keep us updated.


That's basically the same treatment AO gave me in 2008 when I had mine. I sent it 3 times under warranty and the only thing AO would do is crave up perfectly good USGI mags I sent them that worked fine on the Carbines I owned at the time (USGI, Plainfield and a Iver Johnson that were dependable shooters)

I was toying with buying a used AO a few months ago to try again but lucky for me I spotted a Beretta 92FS Inox that decided it needed a new home more Big smile From the sounds of it AO still puts out junk when it comes to Carbines and won't fix any issues
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kaytoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2021 at 7:36am
Originally posted by mwsalter mwsalter wrote:

Mike here.  In 2020 I purchased an Auto-Ordinance M1.  ...
Thanks in advance for any help.

I wish I'd seen this forum and discussion BEFORE I got my AO M1 in 2020! My experience has been identical to those discussed here. 
My AO was returned FOUR times to Kahr/AO for repair. At first they tinkered with it, now all they say is that they can't duplicate the failure using their Hornady ammo. Honestly, I can't imagine a rifle so ammo-dependent that it will FTF and the bolt lock shut. Just awful! 
It is tempting to sell it off but in good conscience it's not ethical to sell a rifle so unreliable. I'm going to try some new Wolff springs and clean/polish the workings better to see if that helps. When the AO does shoot, it shoots well. I just wish it would keep on shooting!

After the AO, I was lucky enough to get a couple of the WW2 era carbines when Midway had them for sale recently. They function flawlessly, although the trigger on the Underwood is a bit heavy. I'm loving them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2021 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Kaytoo Kaytoo wrote:

Originally posted by mwsalter mwsalter wrote:

Mike here.  In 2020 I purchased an Auto-Ordinance M1.  ...
Thanks in advance for any help.

I wish I'd seen this forum and discussion BEFORE I got my AO M1 in 2020! My experience has been identical to those discussed here. 
My AO was returned FOUR times to Kahr/AO for repair. At first they tinkered with it, now all they say is that they can't duplicate the failure using their Hornady ammo. Honestly, I can't imagine a rifle so ammo-dependent that it will FTF and the bolt lock shut. Just awful! 
It is tempting to sell it off but in good conscience it's not ethical to sell a rifle so unreliable. I'm going to try some new Wolff springs and clean/polish the workings better to see if that helps. When the AO does shoot, it shoots well. I just wish it would keep on shooting!

After the AO, I was lucky enough to get a couple of the WW2 era carbines when Midway had them for sale recently. They function flawlessly, although the trigger on the Underwood is a bit heavy. I'm loving them!

The only thing I can suggest is trying the sheepdog link I posted and having a gunsmith look it over.

I would use this spring over the Wolf

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Charles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2021 at 11:19am
I hade this happen twice in about 500 or so rounds of steel cases. I believe those two were longer than 
the others and jammed in beyond the end of the chamber .
I strongly suggest you do not try to eject them as you will destroy the ejector. My solution was to firmly pull back the op slide while with a wooden dowel inserted from the muzzle, gently tap the round out.
  It appears the heat of he first round is causing the chamber to swell but more likely the head space is not to specs.
Good luck,
Charles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kaytoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2021 at 12:38pm
Thanks for your suggestions!

I've been using brass rounds - commercial and nice quality Korean surplus. Both commercial and surplus are causing the FTF and jamming. This occurs anywhere from the first magazine to the sixth magazine. The last time I shot, it went about 70 rounds before a problem!
I'm going to also follow Sheepdog's video suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 35 Whelen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2021 at 2:09pm
I think it's pretty clear from the video that there's a problem with the chamber. A burr, perhaps, or maybe their reamer is worn and the chamber is undersized. Shame a fella has to deal with companies like that, I honestly don't know how they stay in business. How difficult would it have been for them to check the chamber instead of feeding you BS of what brand ammo to use?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 27 2021 at 8:17am
Originally posted by DonFlynn DonFlynn wrote:

Originally posted by Kaytoo Kaytoo wrote:

Originally posted by mwsalter mwsalter wrote:

Mike here.  In 2020 I purchased an Auto-Ordinance M1.  ...
Thanks in advance for any help.

I wish I'd seen this forum and discussion BEFORE I got my AO M1 in 2020! My experience has been identical to those discussed here. 
My AO was returned FOUR times to Kahr/AO for repair. At first they tinkered with it, now all they say is that they can't duplicate the failure using their Hornady ammo. Honestly, I can't imagine a rifle so ammo-dependent that it will FTF and the bolt lock shut. Just awful! 
It is tempting to sell it off but in good conscience it's not ethical to sell a rifle so unreliable. I'm going to try some new Wolff springs and clean/polish the workings better to see if that helps. When the AO does shoot, it shoots well. I just wish it would keep on shooting!

After the AO, I was lucky enough to get a couple of the WW2 era carbines when Midway had them for sale recently. They function flawlessly, although the trigger on the Underwood is a bit heavy. I'm loving them!

The only thing I can suggest is trying the sheepdog link I posted and having a gunsmith look it over.

I would use this spring over the Wolf

Why do you recommend this spring over the Wolf springs. 
David Milisock
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DonFlynn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 27 2021 at 8:24am
Originally posted by David Milisock David Milisock wrote:

Originally posted by DonFlynn DonFlynn wrote:

Originally posted by Kaytoo Kaytoo wrote:

Originally posted by mwsalter mwsalter wrote:

Mike here.  In 2020 I purchased an Auto-Ordinance M1.  ...
Thanks in advance for any help.

I wish I'd seen this forum and discussion BEFORE I got my AO M1 in 2020! My experience has been identical to those discussed here. 
My AO was returned FOUR times to Kahr/AO for repair. At first they tinkered with it, now all they say is that they can't duplicate the failure using their Hornady ammo. Honestly, I can't imagine a rifle so ammo-dependent that it will FTF and the bolt lock shut. Just awful! 
It is tempting to sell it off but in good conscience it's not ethical to sell a rifle so unreliable. I'm going to try some new Wolff springs and clean/polish the workings better to see if that helps. When the AO does shoot, it shoots well. I just wish it would keep on shooting!

After the AO, I was lucky enough to get a couple of the WW2 era carbines when Midway had them for sale recently. They function flawlessly, although the trigger on the Underwood is a bit heavy. I'm loving them!

The only thing I can suggest is trying the sheepdog link I posted and having a gunsmith look it over.

I would use this spring over the Wolf

Why do you recommend this spring over the Wolf springs. 

I've read that the Wolf springs have issues when used in Carbines. I swapped all the recoil springs in my Carbines with the ones there and liked the results
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