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thisoldman
Recruit Joined: Feb 24 2021 Location: Greenfield, In Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Posted: Feb 25 2021 at 10:24am |
I'm trying to find what year my National Ordnance M1 Carbine SN: 25030. The main website is hard to find anything and does not seem to have a definitive date chart. Does this appear to be all original? |
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Jim
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Matt_X
Hard Corps Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 766 |
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The main website is covers the development and wartime production. On the left menu is a link to postwar and commercial production. I suspect the latter is where you'll find info about National Ord. I'll see if I can add a direct link. Whether there is definative information on dates of the carbines or their parts varies greatly. There were 10 wartime manufacturers, each with their own contract(s) and subcontractors, and then post war rebuilding programs and commerical manufactures. OK. Here's how you get there from the main page: On the left menu go down to Commercial Carbines. Pick that. On the Commercial Carbine intro page, go to the menu on the left. Select Companies& Carbines. On the Companies & Carbines page there is a long list of manufactures in table format. Click the cartrige next to Nat'l ord. That brings you to this page http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_natord.html
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sleeplessnashadow
Admin Group Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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Welcome ThisOldMan,
National Ordnance records of when serial numbers were used and/or what markings were used, if such records existed, were not shared outside the company. I've had to reconstruct what s/n and markings were used by gathering whatever info I could over time. The markings on your carbine are consistent with those used by National Ordnance from s/n 0001 thru at least 32238 (1962 thru abt 1970). The one exception being, at about s/n 19023 they started adding So. El Monte, CA to the left side of the receiver at the front. Yours is one of a handful I have records on during that s/n range that are absent the So. El Monte, CA marking. Most had it, a few didn't. My guess is it was simply an oversight. I can only estimate a date of manufacture. Keep in mind serial numbers are specific to the receiver and not when the carbine was finally assembled. So there is a date of manufacture of the receiver and a later date of manufacture for the carbine. Usually the two dates were within a couple months of each other, but not always. My guesstimate on yours is the carbine was assembled in 1969 or by early 1970. "All original" from when it was manufactured requires a closer examination of all of the parts. The parts National Ordnance used during the time frame yours was assembled were mostly commercially manufactured parts made for National Ordnance and their carbines. The mag catch or safety were sometimes GI surplus. Sometimes the rear sight. Commercial parts versus GI surplus depended on availability and cost at the time. Two things to watch out for. First, your carbine is a commercial about 50 years old. It would be a good idea to get it safety inspected by a gunsmith before shooting it. Even if it seems to work fine now it's no guarantee as to the next time. Safety inspections are normally fairly inexpensive. Especially when compared to the cost of an ER visit. Second, National Ordnance used a short slide specific to National Ordnance on some of the carbines they assembled 1962 and later. Your slide has a slide lock pin for locking the slide back so it's probably not one of the short slides. If it is, I strongly recommend replacing it with a surplus GI slide. Hope this is of help to you. Jim |
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thisoldman
Recruit Joined: Feb 24 2021 Location: Greenfield, In Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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You can't see it in the pictures, but there is a So. El Monde, Cal. on the side of the receiver. Hard to see because of the grinding(?) marks. You can see it in this pic. I also found "INLAND MFG DIV." "GENERAL MOTORS" "4-44" on the end of the barrel. So this was a parts gun? |
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Jim
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sleeplessnashadow
Admin Group Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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"Parts gun" usually refers to a GI carbine constructed with various GI parts from different time periods other than the carbine's original parts. Such carbines generally have less value than if they had all the original parts.
What gave birth to National Ordnance and all other commercial carbine manufacturers of the 60's were the large quantities of surplus GI parts that didn't include receivers and usually barrels. A commercial carbine with GI parts was the norm during the 60's. "Parts gun" almost defined most of those commercial carbines. Times change.... Removing and selling the GI parts on your National Ordnance receiver may net more money than if the carbine was sold complete as-is. Many parts sellers buy carbines like yours so they can disassemble them and sell the parts and receiver individually and separately. A used commercial carbine with GI parts has more value than the same carbine if it had all commercially manufactured parts. At the time your National Ordnance receiver was manufactured almost all of the parts used to assemble it were commercially manufactured parts. The availability of surplus GI parts was waning by 1968/1969. The vast majority of people who collect carbines do not consider a commercial carbine "collectable". Especially not a used one. Their "value" is as a less expensive alternative to a GI carbine for use as a shooter. A previous owner appears to have reconstructed your carbine using many GI parts. In doing so he or she increased its reliability as a shooter, its lifespan, and the lifespan of the carbine as a shooter. That it doesn't have the commercial parts used by National Ordnance at the time it was made is considered a significant plus. Hope this helps. Jim |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Somewhere I ended up with a GI slide with the bucket cut down like the Nat Ord version. It's either an IP/S'G' or Winchester.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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Myers
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What is a Arlington Ordnance worth We have M1 carbine cal .30
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
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Arlington Ordnance is not a carbine manufacturer, it is an Import marking. By the serial # you posted you have a Winchester. Would need to know a lot more about your carbine for anyone to guess at a value. Suggest that you log in, start your own post with overall condition, parts markings ect.. and pictures.
Edited by W5USMC - Dec 23 2023 at 12:28pm |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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