Ruth: SG Stock marked OI/40A, Found OI/39A

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Posted: Apr 05 2024 at 1:05pm

RMC stocks were reported into either fall or late 43. Need to check the RMC update.

Think it was questioned that they over produced or did not switch over all patterns on machines for stocks.

The scenario of first in last out has plausiblity. Consider what space a few thousand stocks take. Just the same if they were reaching out for stocks I would think they needed sooner than later

Club Survey Saginaw Receivers

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Posted: Apr 05 2024 at 7:02pm

I'm going to Add a New Post below to clear up the information about the letters in the slingwells on Irwin stocks.

Please Do Not try to contact this company. They are a 1st class world wide stadium seating company. They are not open to the public nor open for inquires about their WWII history.

Roughly 2001,

I was trying to arrange a visit to the Irwin Seating Co in Grand Rapids, Mi about an hour from home. Earlier I had inquired about their WWII history and they sent me a book with a couple pages of the history. It mentioned Robert Irwin keeping a daily log. After several back and forth calls and emails along with me agreeing to a background check I was able to set up a appointment or better said a interview first.

After I got the OK a interview date was set.

I was called in to a room with security, a lady who ended up being a Irwin family member and a lawyer. Went thru a metal detector and patted down then interrogated being asked if I worked for any Media, was writing a book or associated with anything likewise etc. Keep in mind this was a interview and I'd already been thru a background check and wasn't looking for a job. My plan was to get enough if found to do a CC report. If I'd of said yes to any I'd of been asked to leave. I just told them I was a fellow Michigander that collected the Carbines but especially the stocks they made during the War and how I thought Robert Irwin had got a raw deal from his arranged marriage with Pedersen. That I knew Robert was a skilled businessman and while Pedersen may have been a good gun designer but had no production skills just connections. They were impressed with my knowledge of their history, Roberts work at organizing other Grand River Valley Companies to get War Time contracts and my collection. I was able to use one of their computers and back then show them my files of pictures on Photobucket of RSG stocks and markings. After this they had a small meeting and gave me a Date I could return and view some archives. At this point I didn't know if I'd get to see a Log or just some WWII company historic items might have on hand, but I'd come this far and it's just a little over an hour from home. I figured anything was a bonus.

On my return trip,

My pen and clip board had to be left when I entered the room with a guard. The same lady (A Irwin relation) brought out the log, gave me gloves and set by my side while I tried to read his writing. I seen her sift thru a number of the same color logs bringing out just this one specific one. Being hand picked I've often wondered how 'Juicy' some of those others might have been. She helped me with what writing I couldn't make out. Much of it was general notes about meetings and observations as he'd walk thru the plant, etc. But when I came across anything Carbine most of it was Post Pedersen, in the early part Robert was complaining on parts being rejected. Same parts after rejection he'd have shipped to SG or Rock Ola and they'd be accepted with no issues. Lots of stuff about increase this, loss recovery, man power etc. Sometimes near a topic he placed a Asterisk then on the side of the page another Asterisk and expand on it, Like: * Gauges Station 7.

Before I was done there were a number of Irwin family members in the room with me that weren't aware of how deep their WWII history was. Upon leaving I was told I was welcome to come again, but a attempt 2 years later was rejected. Kindly but rejected.

Robert Irwin was a man that loved his city and community. But ran a tight ship.

Charlie-Painter777

Once over and back in the truck I left long voice mails multiple times on the cell phone while fresh on my mind. I also wrote down everything I could remember there in the parking lot and more voice mails on the drive home.

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Posted: Apr 05 2024 at 7:23pm

Fascinating story and you certainly "jumped through a lot of hoops" to get as far as you did! Congratulations on your persistence to learn more about Irwin. I was amazed at the security, the lawyer, the family members in attendance, etc. That must've been an unforgettable experience!

Thanks for sharing, mb

Marty Black

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Posted: Apr 05 2024 at 7:24pm

Matt_X wrote:

It also occured to me the only letter stamps so far are A through F, and 1 G. 7 letters. Days of the week ??

Pretty good thought but,

What does it accomplish? Problem with a batch..... Track it back to a day of a week? What week?

Robert Irwin was a furniture maker on a mass scale. Take their trademark schoolroom desks for example. A station was set up for each part. A leg was cut and when ready was placed in a fitment jig next to that station. If it passed it moved on.

Now building stocks he used a similar set up because that's what he knew worked. After all the steps to making a stock they were moved to 6 FINAL FITMENT INSPECTION STATIONS that were listed as A-F. A note to add another for temporary use when the main Stations were strained was noted with a asterisk.

Robert Irwin wrote about not liking having transfer stocks coming in, because they needed more fitting, he felt they were sending him 2nds costing him repair time doing patch work.

So there were 6 FINAL FITMENT INSPECTION STATIONS listed A thru F with a additional likely added when A-F were strained, which likely could be G.

Now if a Batch have issues they can be tracked back to the Station that did the Final Fitment / Inspection.

My source came directly from the Irwin family allowing me to read about ~6 weeks worth of Robert Irwins hand written Dailey Log post Pedersen. On the conditions that I take no written notes, no pictures, no copying.. etc. They were friendly enough but told me the log included some of his personal opinions about Ordnance, People and things that they couldn't take a chance of being liable of even to this day... per their lawyer (they still to this day seek out Government contracts). I asked then why let me read it, which they replied that anything I said would be considered my opinion or hearsay in a court of law.

Irwin Worker Grand Rapids, Michigan

Grand Rapids Worker Fitting Stock Assembly

Charlie-Painter777

Living Free because of those that serve.....

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https://www.irwinseating.com/

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Posted: Apr 05 2024 at 7:46pm

Marty,

It reads / sounds worse than it was. They were just really cautious. Maybe rightly so, I don't know all the ins and outs of Stadium and Theatre seating. Maybe a lot of Trade / Design secrets that need to be kept close to the vest.

Currently I see they've done 23 of 32 NHL Arenas. 18 of 29 NBA Arenas. 18 of 30 NFL Stadiums.

20 of 30 MLB Stadiums. 93% of Broadway Theatres. Thousands of Movie Theatres. And many other venues.

The Lady Irwin was friendly as could be and a few ole timers who were called and came because of what I was up to could remember when it was operational. Don't know if related or older employees but they knew their way around, they came in (about 3 of them) fresh off their farms, with bibs still on and that fresh.... what'd ya step in smell from their boots. I think if it was just the Ladies call I could have got back in.

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Posted: Apr 05 2024 at 10:14pm

painter777 wrote:

Matt_X wrote:

It also occured to me the only letter stamps so far are A through F, and 1 G. 7 letters. Days of the week ??

Pretty good thought but,

What does it accomplish? Problem with a batch..... Track it back to a day of a week? What week?

Exactly. Problems could be narrowed to a shift or batch and a way to keep track of the carbines because the serial numbers at Saginaw were getting jumbled from the get go even using some S'G' receivers.

So what I'm saying is that these letters and numbers were added at the plant in Saginaw. I am speculating they may have been added after the stock was assembled to a carbine.

Some are clearly stamped over the RSG (or Trimble, RMC, and OI) So I don't think its an issue with the stocks. It's something about the internal tracking method at the Saginaw factory that differed from their operation at Grand Rapids.

Now your suggestion throws additional questions in. Did transfer stocks go to Irwin for stockpiling and/or inspection rather than directly to the plants? But if so, why no stamps in the S'G' stocks? Or did they have in-house inspection at Grand Rapids and not at Saginaw?

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