Buyer Beware

I realize this should probably go in the commercial carbine thread but all considered I think all should see this.

One of our long time Club members sent me this link....

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/875715131

Plainfield Machine M1 Carbine s/n 0002, seller says built in 1965. Bids start at $9,999.00.

I suspect I know his source for the 1965, unless he has the original receipt. Maybe not ...

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_Plainfield02.html

Their serial numbers didn't start at 0001. They started between A616 and A711. 0002 was about 20,000 carbines into production.

The lesson here is, once again, do your homework as best you can.

Jim

floydthecat wrote: My question would be, is it worth 10-grand even if it was number two?

I don't think so, but value is in the eyes of the buyer. Very few people collect commercial carbines as collectables. That may change but probably not in our lifetime.

Jim

Love the price and the front sight! LOL

Probably number  O 002.

03manV wrote: Probably number  O 002.

May be O 002 instead of 0002. Sometimes there is a little separation between the letter and the numbers on those with a letter prefix, sometimes not. May have something to do with each number/letter being hand stamped one at a time. I've seen the letter O followed by 3 numbers but it's possible someone used a zero instead of the letter O.

So this brings into question all having 4 digits that start with a zero.

The first 700 or so Plainfield serial numbers after the Z prefix there were some inconsistencies. I have info on thirty-eight Plainfield carbines after the Z prefix and before those above s/n 1000.

The first 99:
     0002 (the one above)
     0008
     0072

100 & up:
     109 - 283
     0293
     0385 - 0580
     764
     0786 - 0913

All zeros are zeros, not the letter O.

To confuse things further, the letter A was added to the end of the s/n (in one instance it was a prefix) to many of those 109 - 764. Less frequent afterwards with the highest I've seen so far being 1939A. Most of the ones with the letter A were marked M-2. But not all. A couple were marked "CAL. 30 M-1 1" .

A lot of info came from Plainfields I found being auctioned. Many of which didn't show much detail. I stopped looking at a certain point as my goal was the general concept vs a complete and detailed history of everything Plainfield from start to finish. Anyone wishing to take on that challenge who tries to get real detailed will probably graduate from extra strength aspirin to a real strong opiate by the time they get halfway done. These were profit driven commercial companies dealing with overhead costs, the highest of which was employees.

The carbines made by Plainfield started showing some consistency by about the H prefix series. This continued until the end of the Z prefix series. Something happened at Plainfield when they began the numbered serial numbers. Something other than the change in numbering. The quality of workmanship dropped. Along with the consistency in workanship and markings. This was about late 1965 or early 1966. Although the markings and serial numbers became fairly consistent above s/n 2000, the machining and finish didn't improve and become consistent until 1972 or so. Well into the 50,000+ s/n's.

This may have had something to do with the students they brought in who worked at Plainfield as the "lab" portion of their college machining class (info from one of the next generation of Hass & Storck, who worked there). I suspect the demand for quantities over ran their quality control. Both ebbed and flowed over time. Consider also, the riots in the 60's that brought with them an immediate high demand for carbines from police agencies and officers.

One thing I haven't been able to establish is exactly when Plainfield started using their 6 groove barrels. Prior they had used 12 groove barrels. Also surplus 1903A3 barrels (some 2 groove) machined down to carbine dimensions and inserted into a casting that included the threads and gas piston housing. Those 12 groove barrels were used thru at least the G prefix serial numbers.

So, that 0002 may have been a 0002, or it may have been a O 002 run together using a zero instead of the letter O.

Jim