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IBM 3899447 Thoughts? |
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Ol'Sarge2K 
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Joined: Jun 30 2020 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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 Topic: IBM 3899447 Thoughts?Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 5:23pm |
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Hello, hoping to tap into the knowledge on this forum.
Ordered one of the Royal Tiger Imports "Early Model" M1 carbines during the Father's Day special. The RTI advertisement for their "Early Models" guarantees a flip site, no bayonet lug, and push safety. Additionally, they are supposed to be non-refurbed/ in original condition. Went to the FFL yesterday to pick up the weapon and after opening the box refused receipt. Right off the bat the safety is a selector switch not the promised push button safety. I took some pictures and did a little more reading/referencing at home. I believe the stock is wrong. The upper handguard is wrong. The safety is wrong. And possibly the round bolt is wrong. Additionally, and this is admittedly subjective, this thing looks more "Fair" condition than "Good" to me. Will be coordinating with RTI customer service to arrange a return. Before I do, am I missing anything? Is this a gem in the rough I don't realize? Thank You!           |
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SWANEEDMB
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Joined: Jul 31 2016 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 6:01pm |
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Sure looks to me does not have a correct trigger housing, do believe it has had some pretty good use. Hope they make it right with you.
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Ol'Sarge2K
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 6:22pm |
SWANEEDMB I appreciate the reply and insight. For my education, what makes you think the trigger housing is incorrect? Thanks!
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ncin1911
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 6:42pm |
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Trigger group has late components, is not IBM, does not match the patina/wear of the barreled receiver. IMO
The receiver was manufactured by Auto Ordnance for IBM. Round bolt could be correct for the serial and does appear to have been with the barreled receiver for a long time as does the slide. Undated IBM barrel is correct for the serial. Flip sight is correct. Barrel band appears to be correct and matches patina/wear. Handguard would not be correct being a 4 rivet. The stock has rebuild stamp and good chance it's not correct. @ Ol'Sarge2K could you look for markings in the following locations and share? Inside the stock sling well on left side of butt stock Other side of sling swivel, not shown in picture Top flat of front sight behind the blade Being partial to IBM's myself and liking the been there done that look; if the trigger group was right, I would keep it but it's not. For the $; she is pretty salty. import stamped and not quite what was advertised IMO. |
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Ol'Sarge2K
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 6:56pm |
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Thank You ncin1911, I should have realized that the trigger group actually having some finish left was an indicator.
What you're saying about the bolt makes sense. My reference book indicates the weapon's serial number should have the earlier flat bolt - but it's right on the serial number cut off line for the change over. As you said, it does look like it's been there a long time. Appreciate your thoughts/knowledge!
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tenOCEE
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Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 8:02pm |
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None of the RTIs have the correct stock, so that's the typical condition. One guy posted that his did and it was a very nice stock, so I'm very skeptical that it wasn't swapped for the pics, especially in the very nice condition. As ruled by the world we live in, only believe half of what you see.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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Bart1015
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Joined: Jan 03 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 9:45pm |
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I had an issue with an Underwood I received from them. The slide would not stay in the track and the stock look like someone had cut it out of a wet pine tree. Their customer service told me to send it back with a note. I sent it back and they are sending me out another one. I let you know what I end up with.
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Always looking for more carbines.
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painter777
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Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 9:46pm |
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Welcome to our new member Ol'Sarge2k,
I'm also Interested in the slingwell marking on this stock. I believe NO P or other stampings were done when these were outside of the US IIRC. No way right now to know if that stock was on this IBM when that P was struck. Minus the trigger housing (Internals only partially ID'd) and the hand guard, Plus for now the stock until markings are known. This may be very close to being near original.... With swapped trigger housing and hand guard. Stock to be determined.. Question about these RTIs- Are they Import Marked? I've found that when this grimey that a CC stamp, especially a IBM can be very hard to see or find. I haven't paid any attention to what these are running $$, but I hope it works out for you. To All, Enjoy your July 4th CH-P777 ETA: Limited view, but stock looks stout enough to be a LW B. Have to wait and see.
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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W5USMC
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Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2966 |
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Posted: Jun 30 2020 at 10:26pm |
Yes Charlie, they are import marked, see below thread for pictures. |
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Wayne
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Ol'Sarge2K
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Posted: Jul 01 2020 at 11:02am |
Thank You painter777. A happy 4th of JUL to you. |
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4664 |
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Posted: Jul 01 2020 at 11:21am |
the problem with some books is the information may have been believed to be accurate at the time of printing. CCNL 329-5 show that IBM had mixed use of the round bolt in the 3.74 to the 3.849 range and after that the round bolt was most commonly observed. A little perspective on IBM, their first deliver of carbines was in Aug 43. and the last delivery in May 44 They certainly got up to speed very fast. RKI's descriptions are their own and not anything that the carbine community has used. their "New" is as received from rebuild The rebuild program started while the war was still going on Many carbines were just checked and parts swapped. The updates may not have been available when the rebuild was done. I have not looked but suspect all of the RTI carbines have been through the very least "Clean and Inspect" rebuild before being sent to Ethiopia. @Charlie, the Import mark was added to our pages  Foreign rebuild were not to mark the carbine. I suspect that P on grip was from stateside rebuild. Are there any rebuild stamps on the side of the stock? I must say some fine examples of rebuild marks are on some of these from RTI
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SWANEEDMB wrote: