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IBM trigger guard electro penciled

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jangle View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jan 01 2020 at 8:25pm
A few days ago when taking down my early IBM, 3687xxx to look for barrel flat markings that member ncin1911 had enquired about, I had forgotten about how this trigger housing was marked.  It has electro penciled BE-B over a very faint stamping of BE-B.  Have others been observed marked in this manner?


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ncin1911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2020 at 8:55pm
I have seen SS#'s, initials of previous owners, serial # and the like, engraved from an electro pencil but not sub/prime markings.
Curious to hear what others have observed or other possible IBM TH examples like this. Perhaps a stamping issue at Endicott early on and there are more? I guess it's not out of the question of being done by a previous owner but why?

Don't be shy to post some pics of the complete IBM. Everyone likes m1 carbine pictures around here!
Thanks for sharing @jangle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2020 at 10:06pm
If you look carefully at the first picture, you can make out a faint shadow of a stamped BE-B partially covered by the engraved letters. Somebody wanted to make sure people would see the "marking".
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2020 at 10:35pm
Back in 2005 one of our members came across and reported an IBM trigger housing electro penciled BE_B.

Could it be that the housings were too hard to stamp or maybe out of spec and had the sides ground to fit?

Look closely it looks like there is a marking to the left of the first B. 



If your carbine appears an original and you have not done so could you submit a data sheet and point out that the marking is electro penciled, possibly over a faint stamping.


Data sheets:

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ncin1911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2020 at 11:00pm
Yeah the out of spec scenario and needing a grind sounds feasible. There does appear to be quite some definitive machining/grind marks in that area. Not seeing that on the one I have laying here in that area. Now I am going to be pulling actions out to have a closer look.
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2020 at 11:05pm
See if the metal sideplate is thinner due to machining.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2020 at 11:30pm
Oops. nevermind.
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 9:09am
Wouldn't it have been easier and safer to shave off some wood from the stock than remove metal from the action?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 9:54am
I've seen a lot of odd markings of the IBM housings, wouldn't surprise me if the die was faulty and they wanted to mark it somehow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 9:55am
Originally posted by Charles Charles wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier and safer to shave off some wood from the stock than remove metal from the action?

Perhaps but what about during overhaul/rebuild or stock replacement in the field; would the part then be interchangeable?
Maybe the plate thickness was found to be on the high side from what was supposed to be spec?
All speculation of course.



Some of mine for comparison sake.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 10:39am
your picture with red looks as if the housing was not properly aligned when brazed.
I believe they were done in a furnace,  but individually brazed.

So machining to come into spec seems to be the reason. 

Charles,  as pointed out, parts had to meet a specification to be completely interchangeable without any fitting. So TH had to be in spec, no fitting of a stock.

Hmm, seems there may be two different size fonts. 1 and 4 look the same as do 2 and 3. Photo angle maybe skewing it.
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jangle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jangle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 10:42am
I think you fellas might be on to the problem here, with the side plates being initially sticking out to far when it was brazed.  The housing had to be possibly ground down to proper specs.

I have two other IBM housings that I will mic the side plates of to see if I can see any differences.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ncin1911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 11:02am
Yes I have noticed both font sizes on IBM TH's. Also variations in the dash; think there is a CCNL regarding that and placement of dash. B-EB vs BE-B I think it was?
Not to get off topic; also note that line under the stamping on #1 with the larger font and it's placement being further in from edge in comparison to #4 with larger font stamped closer to edge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jangle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2020 at 8:48pm
My micrometer is slightly too large to fit inside the side plate housing, but from these additional photos you can plainly tell that the side plate was ground down compared to another BE-B housing I have on hand.  If the photos come out in the right order as posted, the 1st and 3rd pics are of the ground BE-B and the 2nd photo is the standard variety most seen.  There is a definite ridge left by the grinder as seen in the 1st photo, and easily felt with your finger tip.

Thanks to all for your assistance in solving this mystery for me.


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