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Need a Opinion on a Replacement Stock

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DonFlynn View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


Joined: Jan 27 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Need a Opinion on a Replacement Stock
    Posted: Dec 15 2019 at 10:48am
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/955750

I'm thinking of replacing the current stock on one of my USGI Inlands, it's got a decent birch stock on it but I really like the walnut stock my Fulton Armory made one has on it.

I know they use Boyds stocks, I'm wondering if this is Boyds made stock set

Rifle is question


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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 15 2019 at 10:59am
If you want one which is brand new, it might be a good choice, but to many....it might look “too new”. You can hold your nose if you hate ebay and generally find a good post-war SA around-and-below the $100 range with a little character, but you have to hunt-n-peck for it. 

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DonFlynn View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 15 2019 at 11:18am
The new look doesn't bother me, the rifle has been refinished anyway (before I got it, I'm thinking either by CMP or the agency that had it before them).

This rifle has been through a Fulton Armory inspection and new barrel anyway so any "collector" value has been shot. I wanted it checked and brought up to speed since it's going to be the "heirloom" M-1 Carbine in my stash (I've 3 I can shoot) but I wanted a 100% reliable carbine for passing on to the family.

I'll see what mood I'm in after the holidays. The stock it has now looks decent, biggest reason I want a new stock is I'm tempted to swipe this one for my "Howa" M-1 Carbine after Fulton Armory gets done with it, it's got this on it now

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sleeplessnashadow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 15 2019 at 9:41pm
The problem is retailers like Numrich and Sarco usually don't want to reveal their sources for where they obtain things. Some manufacturers don't cut them a break and sell their own stocks retail for less or the same. Any manufacturer wanting distributors and/or retailers handling retail sales don't undercut the people who sell their products.

Important to add to this that some retailers like Fulton Armory set their own standards on what they will accept from a manufacturer and what they won't. One way of doing this is the retailer contracts the manufacturer for the quality of what they get.

I'll get back to Numrich and Sarco after discussing the manufacturers.

What follows does not include the manufacturers who make M1A1 stocks or stocks other than wood.

There are current three primary manufacturers with a bunch of smaller custom shops who can and will make standard issue vs something custom. This may not be all inclusive. I do the best I can to stay current as time permits.

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MANUFACTURERS

Boyd's Gun Stocks (605) 996-5011
https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/

Their current website does a poor job of showing the carbine stocks they make and don't provide for copying a link to the specific page the carbine stock is on. So we have to navigate to find it. Easier than most but a nuisance.

The one depicted is finished with a dark wood stain not common to the M1 carbine stocks everyone buys. With a disclaimer that it may not look like what you get. Which almost eliminates buying one off their website if you don't want to gamble with whatever they choose to send. They probably send the dark walnut as there is no option for choosing a color other than finished or unfinished.

Their prior website showed a pic of what they actual sent. They offered only the normal GI finish or unfinished. I bought from them and the wood I received looked decent but their machining left many sharp edges. Not the case with the Boyd's stocks sold by Fulton Armory. Otherwise the stocks direct from Boyd's are to GI spec.

Altamont Gun Stocks
https://www.altamontco.com/rifle-stocks/

The carbine stocks and handguards made by this manufacturer are not compatible with stocks and handguards made by others. They're a matched set.

All are about 1/4" shorter than all other commercial carbine stocks and handguards and GI stocks and handguards. The fit of their handguards to their stocks is frequently off 1/16" left or right creating an overlap on both sides.

The machining of the handgrip, sling cut, and nose of the stock consistently varies. Some due to which carbine manufacturer Altamont makes stocks for that they set aside to sell on their own.

Most wood used for their carbine stocks is a hardwood other than walnut. They can do walnut but with the majority of what they make being hardwood for Auto Ordnance and "Inland" it's their most common wood.

The quality of what I've received direct from Altamont I've found to be unacceptable. They've gotten a little better over time but this outfit is a low cost alternative manufacturer in my opinion.

See the entries below for Auto Ordnance and "Inland" and you'll see what those two get from Altamont. It's changed over time with Altamont's offerings running parallel (which is why I don't include the pics here).

Minneli Wood Products
https://minelligroup.com

This is a long time Italian wood products manufacturer that also makes gun stocks. They have a U.S. bases manufacturing facility in Charlotte, NC. Their stocks I'm familiar with have all been made in Italy.

This company does no manufacturer direct retail sales. They are a source for many retailers.

All carbine stocks I've seen from his company have been made from Northern European beach wood stained with dark walnut. The most common ones most people have seen are the stocks used by Chiappa for their .22 rimfire replica of the M1 carbines. Their stocks have also been sold by Classic Carbines (see below) and are currently sold in the USA and Canada by Stocky's in West Palm Beach, FL.

Their stocks are close to GI spec and compatible with handguards made to GI dimensions with one exception. Their sling cut will not accommodate a carbine sling using the standard GI oilers.

This is a very capable manufacturer but what they make depends on what retailers are willing to pay for.

Wenig Custom Gun Stocks (660) 547-3334
http://wenig.com/

The Wenig website doesn't indicate they make carbine stocks. It's geared towards the true individuality of custom. I've called them and learned the CNC data is in their computers and they can make them and finish them. The price at the time was about 25% higher than the Boyds stocks from Fulton. Since they're not mainstream I didn't order one from Wenig. But being a custom shop these folks have a definite eye for details.

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RETAILERS

There are a couple things that are important to realize and remember regarding every retailer. Especially places like Numrich and Sarco.

  • Where they get their stocks and the degree of quality can both change over time.

  • What they show and/or describe on their website is not always accurate as to what you will get.

  • The larger the retailer the more likely their focus is on quantity vs quality. Though small retailers can have this mindset too.


Carbine Manufacturers who sell Spare Parts

It's important to note that what their websites show on their carbines may not be what they currently actually sell as spare parts.

Auto Ordnance
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/parts-accessories/auto-ordnance/m1-carbine/parts/

Carbines currently shown by Auto Ordnance on their website seems like they finally woke up to one of the reasons their carbines weren't selling was the cheap stain they paid to have used on their hardwood stocks.

Auto Ordnance has been using Altamont for their stocks for over 10 years. The current spare parts page does not include carbine stocks but does include handguards and an M1A1 stock.

If you intend to buy wood from Auto Ordnance you need to read the section on Altamont (above) regarding compatibility and quality. Examples of what Auto Ordnance and used and sold from Altamont can be viewed on our web page for Auto Ordnance.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_kahr.html

Classic Carbines
http://classiccarbines.com/xcart/m1-carbine-parts

Classic Carbines obtained the majority of their carbines and parts when they bought the carbine holdings of Time Precision. Time Precision acquired the majority of their parts from the demise of Israel Arms International (IAI/iai). Though Time Precision also acquired a variety of parts from other sources.

The carbines manufactured by Classic Carbines have been with receivers with iai markings. They do not currently list parts for sale. In the past they sold spare stocks and handguards they obtained from Minnelli in Italy. Refer to Minnelli (above) for details regarding their stocks.

Chiappa
https://www.chiappafirearms.com/parts-family.php?id=31

This info is specific to the wood stocks Chiappa uses on their .22 rimfire replica of the M1 carbine. The stocks used on their 9mm replica are not compatible with any .30 cal. carbine.

Chiappa's .22 rimfire replica carbine stocks are manufactured specifically for Chiappa by Minnelli's in Italy. They are compatible with GI dimensions except for the slingwell. Refer to Minnelli's (above) for further info. Examples are shown on our Chiappa carbine page.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_chiappa.html

Fulton Armory
https://www.fulton-armory.com/m1-carbine-stocks.aspx

Fulton Armory is unlike any other current carbine manufacturer and unlike most commercial carbine manufacturers that have ever existed. Their focus is on quality over quantity.

Fulton Armory stocks are made from walnut by Boyds to standards set by Fulton Armory. As a result the stocks and handguards they sell as spares/replacements are usually of better quality and appearance than those sold by Boyds and others who obtain their stocks from Boyds. Fulton offers their spares/replacement stocks unstained or finished.

The stocks and handguards sold by Fulton do not require custom fitting to carbines. This is something Fulton does for the carbines they make as well as offering the custom fit as a service for owners who send their carbines to Fulton.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_FultonArmory.html

"Inland" Mfg
https://www.inland-mfg.com/M1_Receiver_Barrel_Stock.html

"Inland" obtains their stocks from Altamont. Their stocks are made from hardwood stained to look like walnut.

If you intend to buy one of their stocks or handguards you should read the Altamont section (above) regarding quality and compatibility. Examples of what Inland has used are shown on our commercial "Inland" web page.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_inland.html

Surplus Retailers

These companies acquire what they sell from both government and commercial sources that is sometimes surplus but also from bankruptcy sales, rejects to varying degrees, or ordered direct from commercial manufacturers.

Be aware the quantities and variety of sources these these companies have dealt with over the years are not always reflected accurately in their descriptions or photos. Their stocking personnel may or may not be familiar with the variations.

I realize all the warnings and disclaimers indicated above are kind of common sense but need to be spelled out for those who read this who are not yet familiar with some of the problems many of us have encountered over the years. These companies can be an excellent source for parts at a decent price (as many current EBay resellers have found).

One option worth considering to avoid getting something other than what you want is calling and asking. They're both pretty good at doing their best to help you get what you are looking for.

Numrich Gun Parts
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/us-military/rifles-usm/m1-carbine-3/stocks-carbine

The answer to the question that prompted this long post kind of sums up some of the challenges of dealing with Numrich and Sarco. The challenges are manageable if you know what you are looking for and at or come to a forum for help.

These companies aren't crooks. They're simply companies that deal in such large volumes over many years that it makes it difficult to manage it all. The trade off is they often have what no else has and often at a price worth your efforts. Along with decent return policies.

https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/product-configurator

Numrich indicates the two stocks shown on the above link are brand new walnut with oil finish. At the same time they indicate the manufacturer of both as U.S. Military, which they are not.

The only commercial manufacturer I'm aware of that has made carbine stocks with the I cut for the oiler is Boyds. Boyds doesn't currently list them on their website but they may make them for Numrich or Numrich may have acquired them when Boyds stopped producing them and sold their surplus.

The machining and finish of the wood depicted is consistent with Boyds as is the description that indicates they are new walnut. They may or may not tell you who made them if you call. They likely won't tell you the circumstances under which they were obtained if they even know.

Numrich does a pretty good job of indicating if a stock or handguard will not be compatible with GI specs and/or if they were made for/by now defunct companies like Universal, Iver Johnson, etc.

Sarco
https://www.sarcoinc.com/search.php?search_query=%22M1%20Carbine%20Stock%22§ion=product

Their recent website design change is still a challenge to work with and find things. As are their descriptions that are not always accurate.

Sticking to the topic, it appears they are only offering one version of a carbine stock and that it's GI surplus. This may change as they continue to rebuild their retail website.

In the past it was not uncommon for their item description to show photos of several different variations from various different manufacturers without clarifying what would be shipped. Hopefully their new version will not repeat this. This may have happened due to the quantities they deal with and the inability to manage it all over time.

Several of us have communicated with them recently since their change to the new retail software. They're a bit overwhelmed with all they have yet to do but they try to be of help as best they can.

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Bottom Line

If what you want is a really good looking new stock that's functional you'll probably be looking at those made by Boyds. If you don't mind spending $20 or so more than what Boyds is selling them for those sold by Fulton Armory are worth it. If you want the best fit Fulton Armory can do it but plan on the increased cost and a wait time based on their workload.

If what you want is a strong stock that will survive shooting and use for generations that doesn't need to look as pretty the surplus GI M2 stocks have no wood equals as far as strength. With patience you may also find one that looks nice too. Whatever "nice" is to you. Walnut is preferred by most for its looks but birch is a stronger wood and also tends to be a less expensive alternative to walnut.

My shooter (total of 1) is one I built using all late GI parts with as many as possible purchased unused and new in the wrap. I went for function with what I consider the best functioning parts that will probably last well past my great great great grandkids. The wood is walnut M2 with SA markings. I have a spare SA set made from birch should the walnut need to be replaced.

Personal preference and what we can afford is usually the deciding factor on what we get. The rest is be careful to make sure you have the knowledge to know what you are buying and the reliability of the seller. None of us know it all. Which is a big benefit to networking on a forum.

Jim
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DonFlynn View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt


Joined: Jan 27 2019
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 15 2019 at 9:54pm
Danke. Odd's are I'll just break down and get one from FA next time they do a sale. The stock on the Howa is decent enough where I might just let things go for now and stock up on mags
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