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Juggernaut's 1944 Inland 50668**

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Juggernaut09 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juggernaut09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Juggernaut's 1944 Inland 50668**
    Posted: Jul 26 2019 at 11:12am
Greetings everyone!



I inherited this 1944 Inland M1 Carbine from my father in law, an Army Special Forces SGM who saw service from Korea-early 80's. This carbine has sat in his closet since the late 70's/early 80's. There is no doubt in my mind that he didn't change any parts while he was it's caretaker, if he had I'd have found them (he never got rid of anything). He apparently acquired the carbine from the NRA / DCM program in (I believe) 1963. I have the DD Form 1149-4 voucher where he paid $17.50 + $2.50 shipping to recieve it from Tooele Army Depot in Utah, but for some reason it is missing a lot of information, including the serial number and signatures. Is it common for these DCM forms to be incomplete like this? The date on the form is 11-8-3, so I'm assuming the 3 is "63". 

I have a few questions I haven't been able to fully answer using the tremendous resources you all have here:
1. How correct is this carbine? Known potential incorrect/missing parts: The sling swivel is missing. It is possible it was removed to get a better / tighter fit for the type 1 barrel band. I'm hoping I find it next time I visit my mother in law. The sling and oiler seen in some of my photos is a repro I just purchased from Numrich. Also possible the original sling and oiler are still somewhere at the in-laws home. I also purchased an aftermarket type 1 band from Numrich to cannibalize the sling swivel from so I can at least mount the sling. Any tips on where to get a correct swivel would be much appreciated!

2. The Quality Hardware type 3 slide (step cut, ~3/16"" arm joint width) doesn't appear to be correct manufacturer or type for this carbine. Is there any record of Quality shipping slides to Inland in early 1944? If so, would it have been a Type 3 this late? The DA-Q marking also seems incorrect for a Quality Hardware type 3 slide. According to https://m1family.com/part-markings-check-here-first-t46.html DA-Q was only used on type 1 or 2 slides. Type 3 should have been marked UN-Q."

3. Is the flat bolt correct for this serial number? Both the bolt and the extractor appear blued not parkerized. Is this normal?

4. The gas piston is pretty well stuck. I've heard of people plugging the barrel and soaking it in carb cleaner. Is this safe? We used to get yelled at when we cleaned our M60s with carb cleaner back in my Army days (not that it stopped us).

5. The slide has a small bit (~1/32) of looseness to it where it mates to the receiver. Its enough that it rattles if the gun is shaken but not so much I'm worried the slide will come off during operation. Is this normal? The "ears" where the slide mate to the receiver appear to be fine with minimal to no wear. Is there a measurement I could make to verify?

I'm still working on filling out my first data sheet to submit, in the interim here are the markings I've found thus far:

-- Markings --

Barrel: Stamped INLAND MFG. DIV. General Motors 2-44 
Barrel skirt runs 10-7 o'clock 
Tiny "P" mark on top, ~2" forward of stock nose
Receiver alignment mark under barrel and on receiver
A . (dimple) is stamped on top of the barrel ~ 1" forward of receiver 
The barrel Flat stamped with multiple jumbled, hard to read, misaligned letters & numbers 3 4 7 4 Z O or C N 2

Front Sight: Milled, Stamped N on center ridge, Key is staked to barrel - (horizontal stake)

Rear Sight: Leaf type, spring plate appears blued. Left side stamped: S - Right Side stamped IN B. Leaf appears to be staked with a circle inside a circle (O)

Barrel Band: Skinny type I band missing sling swivel. Marked in (upside down, ui) on right side

Barrel Band Retainer: "bull nosed" no line/groove

Trigger Housing: Type III Square rear lug. no hole left side behind magazine release, Inland logo left side below rear lug (vertical). No spring in retaining pin. Trigger and pin appear to be blued not parkerized. Type II Trigger Spring

Sear and spring: Not removed, sear appears to be marked RI

Magazine catch: Type three sans serif M no underline stamped E.I. on magazine well left side

Hammer: Type III "M1E1". Right side is stamped with a 0 or o. Left side stamped I.K. Type II Hammer Spring, Hammer Plunger in the white

Guide Rod: No markings flat front point, 4 15/16" long

Guide Spring: No markings 10 3/8" long

Gas Cylinder: Stamped BI

Gas Piston: Stamping very faint. W or M or WI or IM. Nut staked with round dimple @ 11 oclock only appears to have been staked once.

Receiver: Integrated Spring Housing type, Stamped "Inland Div 50668**". A X is stamped on bottom of trigger housing "stud". Dimple stamped just in front of flip sight. Alignment marks matched to barrel.

Safety: Type II or III Push button (not removed to determine which) with small dimple in the middle on both sides appears blued not parkerized

Stock (Upper): Wood stamped IO/OI 2 rivets on metal tab. No markings on tab.

Stock (Lower): Ordnance cartouche right side, IO/OI inside left side sling cut,  possibly a tiny P visible on grip. Something appears to be stamped in ink inside the fore-grip/gas block cut area but is hard to read. Possibly "50-4" or "70-4"

Butt Plate: Appears to be Inland style square pattern (not diagonal). Wide circle, no markings, no markings on screw

Operating Rod / Slide: Type III (step cut, 3/16" arm joint width) stamped DA-Q inside gas block area

Bolt: Flat Bolt stamped A.I. dimple mark located on top behind extractor. Extractor appears to be blued not parkerized. Awaiting bolt tool to examine firing pin and extractor more closely.

Recoil Plate: Type III, stamped DI on inside, type 2 (Short thread) screw. Escutcheon nut not removed for fear of damaging stock.

Other: No rebuild / Arsenal marks found anywhere. Not sure if there is actually a "P" on the bottom of the stock in grip area, it could be my imagination!

I'll post more pictures below soon!

-- Edit -- Tons of photos added. If higher quality photos are needed from anyone I can provide them.
















































































































Edited by Juggernaut09 - Jul 28 2019 at 5:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2019 at 11:34am
Sounds like a special and unique carbine in so many ways. First, DCM carbines have been sen with tiny letters stamped on the bottom of the pistol grip so many that explains that. The slide is most likely a change out at some point. The rear sight marking is interesting as it could have been one of the ones Inland acquired from some of the other prime contractors as they were losing their contracts.

I am sure your carbine means the world to you, enjoy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2019 at 12:10pm
Agree with Why Carbines, sounds like you inherited a nice one. As far as your slide marking the DA-Q is a correct marking for Type III QHMC slides, no telling how it ended up on your Inland. The markings on your barrel flat are often referred to as Inland Hieroglyphics.
Concerning your stuck gas piston, you can try soaking it in something ie.. hoppes, clp, kroil ect. but, I bet it is not as stuck as it appears and firing it would loosen it right up, especially if it has been sitting around for awhile. Good luck on finding the correct swivel, I have been searching for one since Feb. Would love to see some close-ups of the rear sight.
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juggernaut09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2019 at 1:22pm
Wayne,
Here's some higher resolution pictures of the rear sight. I didn't realize there was anything special about it. Is it the fact it's a leaf or the IN B marking that has you interested?








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2019 at 1:41pm
Aside from the operating slide and rear sight, your carbine looks to be fairly correct. The "IN B" rear sight was originally intended for I.B.M.

Regarding the operating slide, QHMC did not transfer many parts to other prime contractors. Records show that they sent a few slides to Rock-Ola and NPM in '43 but none to Inland. Actually, Inland was more likely to be the one who sends parts to the other prime contractors. Although it's possible these were undocumented transfers, like others have said, your slide was probably a random replacement at some point.

It is normal for bolts to be blued and either a flat bolt or a round bolt could be expected on your serial number. Round bolts were just starting to be used around the time your carbine was made.

Like Wayne said, any tightness will probably be resolved by firing the carbine. The gas piston usually requires no maintenance. It's kind of designed to be self cleaning.

The looseness of the operating slide is common. Hopefully it will not disengage if you pull it up and to the right as you pull it rearward. Even if it does, it's not likely to happen during actual firing. The engagement tab on the operating slide should be .090” -.003 by .240” +-.002 for a Type 1 through 5 slides. Type 6 might be a little tighter.

Type 1 sling swivels show up on Ebay from time to time but they're just as likely to be repros so be careful.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989LX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 26 2019 at 1:58pm
Man, that is a very clean carbine.
USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2019 at 8:27pm
Juggernaut, Can you take a good look at your barrel and receiver and let me know if there are any electro-penciled markings. Look close as it may not be clearly evident.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juggernaut09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2019 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

Juggernaut, Can you take a good look at your barrel and receiver and let me know if there are any electro-penciled markings. Look close as it may not be clearly evident.

You mean like from a handheld engraver? Nothing I've been able to find and I've been over it with a magnifier and flashlight. The only "odd" markings are the hieroglyphs on the barrel flat and they all appear to be punch stamped.

by the way...

I finally had a chance to shoot this beauty about a month ago. Took my daughters out shooting and all together we put 200 rounds of 1980's PMC "camo box" .30 cal Carbine though it. No issues with the gas plug it popped loose first shot :)

Out of the 200 rounds we had 3 misfires. 2 failure to feeds and one failure due to out of battery, It didn't fire on the out of battery so I'm actually happy to know everything is still within tolerances and working as intended. All three misfires happened with M2 30 round mags, no issues at all from the 15 and 5 round mags. Overall it shot like a champ and put nearly every round in a 1-1.5" circle at 50 yards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2019 at 12:19pm
I seem to remember one arsenal marked the slide. I do not remember if it was the arm or the bottom of the slide.

Looking at your pictures again I see an I.K. marked hammer, the rear side with a small "o". This has been reported in the Newsletters with 4 different markings. Since then I have observed a few more markings. 
If anyone has one of those hammers please let me know what markings are on the rear.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2019 at 12:44pm
Living Free because of those that serve.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juggernaut09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2019 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

How close to 5,066,894 ?

See link:

Charlie-P777


Charlie,
Mine's about a dozen off from that. Wow what a story.
Thanks
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