M2 Stock Mark Question

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   Hello,

My local gun shop has 2 M1 carbines for sale from a "gentleman's estate".  One, an NPM is for sale at $1499 (1498xxx), the other an Inland (5254xxx) is at $1299. Both have a pot-belly M2 stock with the selector switch cutout.  Neither stock has an arsenal rebuild stamp.

Is there anything I can discern from these stocks ?

The stock on the Inland has these marks in the sling-well, and no other marks.

The stock on the NPM has an SA mark, and a P on the front of the handgrip, and no other marks.

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Time2Reload Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Recruit Joined: Sep 11 2018 Location: SE Penn Status: Offline Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote Time2Reload Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: M2 Stock Mark Question Posted: Dec 03 2018 at 9:04pm
	Hello, My local gun shop has 2 M1 carbines for sale from a "gentleman's estate". One, an NPM is for sale at $1499 (1498xxx), the other an Inland (5254xxx) is at $1299. Both have a pot-belly M2 stock with the selector switch cutout. Neither stock has an arsenal rebuild stamp. Is there anything I can discern from these stocks ? The stock on the Inland has these marks in the sling-well, and no other marks. The stock on the NPM has an SA mark, and a P on the front of the handgrip, and no other marks.

LMTmonoMan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Grunt Joined: Mar 18 2018 Location: AL Status: Offline Points: 152	Post Options Post Reply Quote LMTmonoMan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 03 2018 at 9:28pm
	Your second stock is made by Springfield Armory (SA). They were replacement stocks to best of my knowledge. The P is the rebuild proof mark. The SA marking I would think is at the front of the stock, near where the barrel band fits into place? Your first stock is a bit more difficult, but I've heard the circle K is from Keystone Mfg. This is a quote from Bill Ricca found on the CMP forum..... "I need more documentation to prove it, but I think it may be Keystone Manufacturing from Boston, Mass during WWII. Keystone had two other stock contracts, one which I can identify for the 03 series rifles. Keystone had a "Stock Assemblies" contract from 10/44 thru 5/45. The time puts it in line with M2 Production. Can't prove it yet, but it makes sense. I doubt it is post war due to the location of the markings." Several other examples on the net show the circle K with a different number...maybe indicating which batch it was from? ETA: Those prices seem quite high based on the limited info you posted.

Time2Reload Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Recruit Joined: Sep 11 2018 Location: SE Penn Status: Offline Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote Time2Reload Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 03 2018 at 9:42pm
	Thank you LMTmonoMan. And yes, the SA mark on the NPM is at the front of the stock. Both of these are very clean stocks. The finish(es) look original and there are few dents / scratches.

LMTmonoMan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Grunt Joined: Mar 18 2018 Location: AL Status: Offline Points: 152	Post Options Post Reply Quote LMTmonoMan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 03 2018 at 10:55pm
	My pleasure to help out brother. Every SA stock I've seen have been very nice. I have an Inland that has one, and then I bought a birch FAT82 marked one at a show a few months back. Some have beautiful tiger stripping in their grains, and I regret not buying one like that in Oct. for $75. $1500 just seems steep for a carbine with a SA stock. I have recently seen a very nice, and clean Rockola mix master in a similar stock iirc that sold for a bit over $1500...but I think that was all about the jukebox name. I think NPM still command a premium over Inlands based on amount of each produced, but not enough to put them in the category with IP, or Rockola carbines. What are the rest of the specs on those carbines?

Time2Reload Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Recruit Joined: Sep 11 2018 Location: SE Penn Status: Offline Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote Time2Reload Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 04 2018 at 7:23am
	Thanks for the feedback LMTMonoMan. I really appreciate it. The guys at the gun shop let me disassemble these on the spot, so I took them both down to the bolt. Not a perfect record, but here are the quick notes I took. It looks like they both have a mix-up of what I think are late-war parts: For the NPM (Ser. No. 1498xxx) - Barrel: Marlin, undated - Barrel Band w/ Bayonet Lug, marked "JMO" - Hand Guard: 4 rivet, marked "HI" - Operating Slide: At least a Type 5 ? with an angled Cam, marked "N" - Trigger Housing", marked "W" - Hammer: Straight, probably type-3 ?, marked "U" - Could not see a mark on the Sear - Safety: Type 4, rotary, marked with a funny "E" in a horseshoe ? - Mag Catch: Looks like a Type 3 ? Unmarked. It does not have the 3rd nub to support a 30 rd mag. - Rear Sight: Adjustable, Type-3 ?, marked "IRCO" - Bolt: Flat, marked "N", with no number. It had a flat faced Ejector. - Passed No-Go on Forster head space gauge - Sling: Green, no markings on the material. Galvanized metal ? Looked old - Magazine: 15 rd, marked "KI" For the Inland (Ser. No. 5254xxx) - Barrel: Inland, Shoot!, I did not note the date! - Barrel Band w/ Bayonet Lug, no mark - Hand Guard: 2 rivet, marked "IO" - Operating Slide: At least a Type 5 ? with an angled Cam, marked "E" on the outside and "PI" inside - Trigger Housing", marked "SG" - Hammer: Straight, probably type-3 ?, marked "SW" - Could not see a mark on the Sear - Safety: Type 4, rotary, marked with a "EI", looks like an over-stamp on top of an "SS" mark - Mag Catch: Looks like a Type 3 ? Unmarked. Does not have the 3rd nub to support a 30 rd mag. - Rear Sight: Adjustable, Type-3 ?, marked with an "H" in a shield - Bolt: Round, marked "IO 1" - Passed No-Go on Forster head space gauge - Sling: Green, no markings on the material. Looks similar to the one on the NPM - Magazine: 15 rd, unmarked

New2brass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656	Post Options Post Reply Quote New2brass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 04 2018 at 1:35pm
	+1 on LMT of K in a circle possibly being Keystone. I think there is another thread on the subject. NPM operating slide most probably marked PI inside the channel. If N inside you may just have trouble seeing numbers. Only Inland and Winchester made the type 5 with an angled deflector. Inland slides had random letters on the bottom outside. The links do not get into marks. The second link helps to understand better the differences. Also, there are several systems of identifying the slides. the second link has the most common use (type X) as well as what the club uses for data sheets which is a little more specific. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/slides.html http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/operating-slide-chart_topic1140.html First link can be found by clicking the picture of the carbine at top of the page, this brings you to the main pages, then use the menu on left and click parts. You can then choose which parts you want to read about. Hammers are another thing with different systems. Straight works! Trigger housing marked W, Many times the W is hard to see or absent. Sometimes we see a crescent moon shape near it. Just for discussion: Winchester often had marks on the bottom flat near the trigger guard. I do not think we ever correlated progression of those marks. Safety is an M in a horseshoe. Mag catch is usually marked where the magazine touches. Sometimes marked on the back, you need to remove to see a mark. Inland: SG trigger housing, How were the letters orientated? Safety was a transfer part. Often seen on the flip safeties. Another unmarked mag catch? See above. Also possible aftermarket as they were required to be marked in wartime production.
	Club Survey Saginaw Receivers

Time2Reload Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Recruit Joined: Sep 11 2018 Location: SE Penn Status: Offline Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote Time2Reload Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 05 2018 at 7:39am
	First off, thanks for taking the time on the reply. This is very helpful to me not just on the potential purchase, but on how to use this site which is so rich with content. Regarding your question on the Inland's SG trigger housing, and how the letters are oriented.... I have to go from memory here. I recall the SG was on the upper right side of the housing, towards the rear and oriented left to right. This afternoon I’m going back to the gun shop to see how much they’ll come down on the $$$. Maybe I’ll be adding one of these to the collection.