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New2brass View Drop Down
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2018 at 11:24am
Originally posted by LMTmonoMan LMTmonoMan wrote:

Seeing aspects like this make me really wish that these carbines had their parts serialized and matched when either new, or rebuilt at an arsenal across the board.

You bring up an excellent point. Before the US Carbine Cal. .30 M1 firearms were hand fitted. If it went to an arsenal the parts had to be fit and function tested. This involved tweaking.

When the Germans and Austrians got the carbines, they marked the parts to keep them together not knowing (or believing) that all the parts on the M1 carbine were interchangeable. The only thing needing to be checked was the headspace.

If all the parts were serialized I do not think there would be as much interest in the carbines today. The fact that all the parts are marked from the contractors and subcontractors makes it much more interesting with a lead into a ton of history. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spatton17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2018 at 8:46am
Thanks for all the input guys!  

 So from what I gather, this carbine was part of a US Govt. lease to Italy and the Carabinieri sometime after the war?  I understand many have been returned in recent years and were mainly sold by CMP.  No FAT markings on the stock though, I guess someone fitted it with an RIA stock somewhere along the way?  

 I'm trying to figure out what the date is on the stamp, looks like 82 or 87.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMTmonoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2018 at 9:42am
Now that we see the barreled receiver being proven as serving time with the Italians, it seems like it couldn't have retained it's RIA/EB marked stock without being marked with the FAT cartouche....so I think you are correct that it picked up the RIA/EB stock after it's return from the Italians, and seems logical the CMP might have done it to potentially replace a bad FAT marked stock.

Again the area for research with regards to what individual arsenals did to carbines seems ripe for discoveries.   For example, did the Italians always mark their carbine stocks with the FAT cartouche?

Seems logical to me to assume that they would have given they took the time, and expense to mark the barrels in countless documented cases....however on the other hand now we see they marked at least some receivers, but didn't mark most that we at least know of at this time.   So again, what was their policy on all this, and specifically in the context on this post, their policy on marking stocks?

All the above comes from the mind of a very novice carbine student, so perhaps some of those questions are already known, and some other much more knowledgeable member will come around and set the record straight.


eta....I got a very cool FAT82 marked SA post war potbelly birch stock recently for cheap at a gunshow. Another great member who I talk with via email also got one IIrc from numrich.com, but his was walnut. Point being that you can find a FAT marked stock pretty easily, and for relatively cheap. That said, I think your current stock is very cool as well with it's markings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watchdog49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2018 at 10:40am
Nice carbine, looks to be in very nice condition -- and welcome to the forum. Have you shot it yet....or do you intend to?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2018 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by LMTmonoMan LMTmonoMan wrote:

   For example, did the Italians always mark their carbine stocks with the FAT cartouche?


I am going to have to say no they did not mark all the stocks with the FAT stamp, they also did not mark all of the barrels. I say this because of the 10 Italian returns I got from the CMP only 4 had a marked stock and only a couple had the stamp on the barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2018 at 3:09pm
Wayne, ditto with my CMP Italian return QHMC. It has a FAT stamp on the barrel but the original stock (Type 1) is untouched. By the way, the metal was beautifully refinished, I assume by the Italians. Do you suppose they made an effort to keep the original parts together when they did the rebuild?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMTmonoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2018 at 5:00pm
If the CMP in the past fixed carbines like they currently have to fix for example the Philippine Garands, then that might account for many of the Italian returns having some marked parts, and some not.

Why would any arsenal only mark some barrels, some stocks, some receivers in a totally random manner? Perhaps they only needed one part marked whether it was the stock, receiver, or barrel. To counter that though, why then does OP's barreled receiver have both parts marked.

I won't clutter the thread up anymore with my pure speculative thoughts, and at the end of the day I'm not sure many people really care much about the arsenal stuff in relation to correcting, or collecting. If we could verify rifles as being unmolested rebuilds, it would add a whole new category of carbines that to some, especially shooters would be fantastic.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spatton17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2018 at 7:38am
Originally posted by watchdog49 watchdog49 wrote:

Nice carbine, looks to be in very nice condition -- and welcome to the forum. Have you shot it yet....or do you intend to?

Yes!  Shoots well and functions well.  My wife has too.  She loves it because it's so lightweight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2019 at 5:28pm
Italian FAT terni arsenal markings on barrel,A star with FAT and a Number.Nice M1.
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