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Paul1262 
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Joined: Jun 25 2018 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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 Topic: Springfield Armory rebuildsPosted: Oct 14 2018 at 6:22pm |
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Is there any resource(s) that would provide information on the rebuilds performed by Springfield Armory following WW II?
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W5USMC
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Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2958 |
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Posted: Oct 14 2018 at 8:14pm |
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Paul, not really sure as to what info you are looking for. Springfield Armory rebuild specific? War Baby! Comes Home, Chapter 32, "The Post War Carbine Program" has good info about Spring Armory and their post war activities. Have you looked at the post war info on this site.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/postwar.html |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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Paul1262
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Posted: Oct 14 2018 at 8:26pm |
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I read the post war site and was wondering if there was more information available for example, how many units they reworked, did they receive carbines from all of the prime contractors, who where the carbines distributed to, etc etc. Not sure of specific questions just wondering if more detailed information on these reworks was available. I will try and borrow a copy of War Baby II and review Chapter 32. Thanks.
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W5USMC
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Posted: Oct 14 2018 at 10:24pm |
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Paul, SA would have received the carbines for overhaul from the Ordnance Dept. not from the prime contractors.
Here is some info from War Baby Comes home and CCNL 258. Springfield Armory Carbine overhaul, (FY 46- 13,005 overhauled), (FY 47- 55,678 overhauled), (FY 48- 46,368 overhauled). SA was also tasked with developing a long term storage method for the surplus carbines, which they did, a dry storage canning process. So after overhaul the carbines were canned. According to CCNL 258 in FY 48 SA canned 254,310 M1 and M2 carbines. |
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Wayne
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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Posted: Oct 14 2018 at 11:20pm |
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I believe some of the last carbines that the CMP received may have been canned carbines. The stocks were dry and the SA stamps were perfect on some.
Sadly I did not get a winning ticket. |
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Paul1262
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Posted: Oct 15 2018 at 7:24am |
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Wayne, I really appreciate the additional information.
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Paul1262
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Posted: Oct 15 2018 at 7:33am |
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Dan, Would the Springfield Armory carbines offered by CMP have their markings? I'm curious because my Springfield has a clear SA stamp on the left side of the stock and SA on the inside of the handguard - no CMP markings.
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W5USMC
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Posted: Oct 15 2018 at 9:22am |
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There would be no CMP markings. A CMP certificate of authenticity with the purchasers name would have been included with the carbine from the CMP.
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Wayne
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Paul1262
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Posted: Oct 15 2018 at 1:34pm |
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Wayne, Thanks again. I ordered a copy of newsletters #258 and # 205.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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Posted: Feb 06 2019 at 2:04pm |
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If anyone received a SA rebuild from last CMP lottery I would be interested in the trigger markings, especially if unmarked or odd marking
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rustygun
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Joined: May 27 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: Aug 04 2019 at 3:14pm |
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New2brass; Do you remember when the last CMP Auction was?
I have a 2007 released INLAND M1 Carbine rebuilt by Springfield Armory. A neighbor received several of them back then. Finally 12 years later he parted with this one. I'm not sure if that is the lottery in question. Were you looking for just "Trigger" Markings? or markings on trigger group housing? I'll be glad to help if I can. |
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rustygun
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Posted: Aug 04 2019 at 4:05pm |
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The only markings on the trigger itself is what looks like a manufacturer's Two-Letter Code.
That Code Is: TB I saw no "NEW" markings on the Trigger Housing. The few markings on the housing were from before rebuild and had been bead or sand blasted at least once before re-parkerizing. The trigger, sear, and safety were new replacements.  |
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Aug 04 2019 at 9:11pm |
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Triggers marked TB were made for IBM in Meadville, Pa. by Talon, Inc.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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Posted: Aug 06 2019 at 10:21am |
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Rusty, Thanks for the pictures.
Looking for trigger markings from the SA rebuilds. Being that the ones from the CMP most likely were as delivered by SA it would be a good indication of what they used for rebuild. Obviously they used parts that were stripped off the carbines that passed inspection. SA also made some replacement parts such as the trigger, hammer, sear, mag catch. What I am looking for is the obvious SA marked hammers or unmarked hammers that may or may not exist (from SA)
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desert-storm
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Posted: Aug 08 2019 at 8:18pm |
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I have a SA marked hammer, it is NOS and was purchased from a CMP forum member several months ago. Interesting thing about it is for a M2, a type 4 hammer. I also purchased from a CMP forum member, a very rare SA marked Magazine catch but it is a type 3 for the 15rd mags, I would think it would be a type 4 for the 30rd mag. I will post pictures a little later along with other SA marked carbine parts. I am doing an all SA carbine build and have just one more item to acquire, the slide. I have a NOS type 6 HSA marked slide i will use if the SA slide is not eventually found.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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Posted: Aug 16 2019 at 11:06am |
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Desert, Any pictures?
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desert-storm
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Posted: Aug 17 2019 at 1:29am |
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Type 2 milled rear sight stamped with an "SA" & H inside Shield. No "crossed cannons" stamp on left side. Condition is excellent and purchased from the CMP forum. Type 4 hammer is stamped "SA". NOS condition and purchased from the CMP forum. Have to make a spacer to use it as I did not realize that SA only made the hammer in a type 4 as I have come to find out. Type 3 Magazine is stamped "SA". Condition is excellent and purchased from the CMP forum. Curious if SA ever made a type 4? Trigger is stamped "S=A". The "A" is lightly struck, condition is excellent and purchased from the CMP forum. Barrel is stamped "SA 10-51" below the front sight and a lightly struck "crossed cannons" on the flat area below the gas piston. look closely as it is partially struck and next to the middle hardness test dimple. Condition is NOS and had a Type 3 "SA" stamped barrel band & "SA" front sight that was removed for when I refinish all parts for an all "SA" M1 Carbine build. Purchased off of eBay from the seller in Norway that has been selling NOS M1 carbine parts for the last several years. I will be using a NOS Inland flat bolt stamped "AI" with the pointed right lug (for increased dwell time) and the added .10 to the length of the skirt on the rear of the bolt with the redesigned cam surface on the rear of the bolt that engaged and cocked the hammer. These were changes that the round bolts had and was fortunate to find a NOS flat bolt with these up-dated features. The bolt was purchase from the Ebay seller from Norway. I did not bother to post a pic of the "SA" front sight, "SA" barrel band and "SA" trigger housing I will be using as pictures of these are shown quite frequently. I will be posting a picture of the Excellent condition, figured Walnut stock that is stamped with the "SA" near the nose of stock and a NOS "Springfield Armory Inc" receiver that I will be using for the build. The "SA" walnut stock was purchased from the CMP forum and had the cast recoil plate, screw & escutcheon nut along with the barrel band retainer. Stock was only missing the butt plate so I will be using a NOS SG (missing dot at 5 o'clock) butt plate that was covered in cosmolene and wrapped in the common arsenal green preservative wax wrapping material that was in a box of 50 & marked "Springfield Armory". I also will be using a NOS "RIA" stamped recoil plate as an added bit of history & tribute to the post war M1 carbine rebuild effort. A NOS "RIA" stamped sear will also be used in the Trigger group. I purchased a near complete "SA" stamped trigger housing/trigger group from the CMP forum that was in unused/NOS condition & in M2 configuration but did not have any "SA" marked parts other than the housing. Sold off all of the M2 parts except the RIA sear. MORE TO COME as time allows, STAY TUNED.       Edited by desert-storm - Aug 17 2019 at 6:19am |
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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Posted: Aug 18 2019 at 12:38pm |
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Nice transfer rear sight! We discussed this not long ago:
Your trigger is for Standard Products made by Able Tool Co. I assume your buttplate is of the SG/Inland design. The reason for this may be SA received machines to tool up fro production. There were issues setting up these machines and they had trouble or could not produce many parts. It is also possible the plates were transferred from SG to SA once SGs contract was terminated. SA did make mag catches post war, these should be type 4s. After the war the requirement to mark parts was dropped, this is why we probably do not see SA marked parts that we know they made. This is why I ask above for reporting for triggers on SA rebuilds. I suspect they are unmakrd but have a defining feature. One such unmarked item is the sear, We know what it looks like from a sear found new in the wrap. However some new reporting may show other manufactures may have had the same feature. But now you know what to look for. Recoil plates from SA may be the cast ones with the little swirl on top, Anyone know for sure? So your recoil plate may be correct. If shooting you may want to search the issues of post war plates vs war time. your barrel date picture is missing, but you may want to add it to the SA barrel thread http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/sa-barrel-info-requests_topic2603_post12357.html?KW=barrel#12357 Please upload pictures to your control panel as Imgur and others that host pictures will disappear and make threads worthless in the future Where did you hear that SA only made type 4 hammers? SA did make (type 3)straight hammers without the M2 clearance cut. replacement (MC, AM, WA, WM) hammers that many think are post war, but they are not. These were made to replace all the dogleg hammers. I believe these SA hammers were made as replacements for the dogleg hammers as well circa late 43 or 1944. SA was to make carbines starting in 1945, only one was ever produced. They did make parts and were required to make them to the latest specifications. This would mean that the hammers would be a type 4. There were only 3000 some odd hammers made in this period. The question is if they were marked? SA did do rebuilds later and made parts, I do not see hammers listed as one of those parts until 1954 and experiments with cast hammers I have not seen many SA hammers, though I have been looking for a t3 for a long time. I will say the machining on yours is not consistent with those T3s I have observed. It seems that River Bank has an unlimited supplies of SA type 4 hammers. I am not saying yours is one of them, but the machining seems more consistent with them. |
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desert-storm
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Posted: Aug 18 2019 at 2:30pm |
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Several things distinguish my SA type 4 hammer from the riverbank fakes. 2 hardness test dimples on mine, SA font is different & struck at a different angle and a bevel on the riverbank hammer near the top left side. They look and are very different to a trained eye. Thanks for the info on the sear, will be looking for one. Also how is the trigger stamped on the SA?
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4656 |
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Posted: Aug 18 2019 at 5:36pm |
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Able tool made triggers reported as marked SA, S-A, S=A for Standard Products, In that progression.
A Springfield Armory marked Trigger is also reported as being marked SA. I believe the fonts were different and I have observed some possible machining differences. Unfortunately, I have not had a SA Able tool that was not blasted to hell to compare. PM sent
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