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cracker
Recruit Joined: Feb 27 2018 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: Mar 01 2018 at 9:28am |
I’ve owned my Carbine since the first NRA/CMP offer. I’ve identified most of the parts as being correct for the original manufacturer (QHMC) - later WW II ordinance department changes notwithstanding - however the stock is still a bit of a puzzle. What I have determined is that it appears to be a Type III, with a Winchester type recoil plate cut-out, a reinforcing bridge, and no fat belly. There is a faint cartouche mark in the sling cutout alongside a very prominent large letter “J.” There are no other marks on the stock. What I believe is that this a replacement stock, probably produced by Johnson Lounge. The Winchester type recoil plate would appear to date it 1945 or later. Are my assumptions correct and, if so, where would the carbine likely have been headed after this stock change?
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2959 |
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Welcome to the forum. This is from Bill Ricca's page of myths and what I believe to be true concerning the J marked stocks.
"J marked Stock, Jewel Bros., production was Aug44-Apr45" And here is a previous thread where the J marked stock was discussed, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/replacement-stock-with-cc-cartouche_topic3071.html |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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cracker
Recruit Joined: Feb 27 2018 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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The cartouche belt is 9/32 inches in diameter with what looks like the “hotdog” ends on the cannons. If this is a Jewel Bros. stock, versus a Jamestown stock, do the manufacturing dates make any difference? QHMC finished their production run in April 1943 and Jewel began their production in August 1943. Accordingly, does it follow that my Carbine was likely shipped with a Rock Ola, Type I (or other) and then updated with the Jewel stock?
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2959 |
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Yes, your carbine most likely would have left the factory with a RMC or Q-RMC stock, your serial # would dictate what type (I-III), the J marked stocks were wartime replacements. |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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cracker
Recruit Joined: Feb 27 2018 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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That leads me to believe that the wartime replacement stock might be prima facscia evidence that the original gun saw action during WW II. Whether true or not I’m going to cherish that thought in the hope that it served the soldier it was issued to well, and that it further served to bring him safely home!
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Why Carbines?
Hard Corps Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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The Jewel Brothers stocks were wartime replacement ones, sometimes seen with a ordnance cartouche and sometimes not. QHMC stopped production in or about April 1944. Hope all of this helps.
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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And where did you get this information? Winchester stopped production in 1945 |
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cracker
Recruit Joined: Feb 27 2018 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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It was stated in “The U. S. Carbine Caliber .30,” sub-heading “Stocks,” sub-heading “Added support below the recoil plate” that: During production of the Type III Stocks, in 1945, Winchester changed the machining of the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support. The appearance of this Winchester-Type recoil plate cut-out on my stock simply led me to believe that my stock was produced no earlier than 1945.
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Ok, i see the miss understanding
You had said recoil plate. Yes the recoil plate cut was used by Winchester in 1945. The same cut has also been observed in wartime replacement stocks such as S&C as well as J which is believed to be Jewel bros. Jewel stocks have been observed with the "hot dog" CC as you point out. Some Underwood stocks have a similar CC. We need more information from original Underwoods or stocks in like new condition or new in wrap |
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