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1964 ERMAS MTG CO M1 30 CAL

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floydthecat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 20 2017 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by davdona51 davdona51 wrote:

Anyone see this Masonic SYMBOL befor?


Looks like the one Hiram wears.
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New2brass View Drop Down
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 20 2017 at 7:56pm
I have never seen it on a carbine.
I have only seen CC on SA barrel flats if not near date.
So either from Ermas or a previous owner
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sleeplessnashadow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 20 2017 at 10:44pm
Be sure to tell the gunsmith the receiver was cast using 4130 steel. Not made from 4140 forged steel as the GI receivers were.

I've never seen a mason's symol on a carbine. Keep in mind this a GI barrel made post WWII. I have seen various symbols, initials, names etc that were added to a carbine by those who carried it in the military or who have owned it since. Most were not professionally done, as with this one.

Lighting can make things deceptive sometimes regardless of size. Take a look at the left rear lug the trigger housing slides into. Looks like metal deformation on the on the outside edge at the bottom corner.

Notice the Ermas markings pushed in on the left side of the receiver. Also look at the edge that runs alongside the left side of the bolt. May just be shadows but it looks a little farther from the bolt at the front than it is at the rear.

The area where the left lug locks into place is a good area for a closeup. These reminded me that many Ermas I've seen that area becomes deformed from the repeated movement of the left lug into and out of the opening.

Jim
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manteo97 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manteo97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2017 at 12:10am
I assume by saying it has been disassembled that the barrel has been removed from the receiver?

Absolutely necessary to check the hardness before any H/T operations, USGI spec is Rockwell C 38 - 45, whereas commercial receivers (both forged and cast) is Rc 35 minimum. H/T temps and quenchant are the same for 4140 and 4130 ( soak 1550 - 1600 F with oil quench), but make sure that the receiver is going to be tempered after initial heating & quenching to draw down to required hardness. Insure your heat treater knows what they are doing, it is a complex shaped part, as soaking too long at these temperatures, and quenching might warp and or crack the part.

Going to have to blue or parkerize after.

Probably a good idea to check the headspace too if you have not removed the barrel.
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sleeplessnashadow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2017 at 2:12am
Manteo97,

The info I received was all the barrels used by Ermas were 1903A3 barrel inserts into demilled carbine receiver rear halves and modified to carbine bbl dimensions. The info was from the son of the woman who made the barrels at Ermas.

But with commercial carbines it's not uncommon to find something other than the norm. I think it's more likely an owner replaced the Ermas barrel on this one with the SA barrel but it's all just an educated guess on my part.

My recommendation to anyone with an Ermas receiver is get it hardness tested. If it tests below spec it's decision time.

Personally, the amount of money, time and effort of getting the Ermas receiver hardened, refinished and the carbine reassembled isn't worth it all to me. Particularly with a receiver as old as these that may already be out of dimensional specs from being too soft. Add to this not all gunsmiths or metal manufacturers know how to harden a carbine receiver properly.

My choice would be to buy a new receiver that can be relied on for long past my lifespan. With Fulton Armory receivers selling for $225 on sale during the holidays theirs would be my choice.

At the same time I respect the choices of others on what they would prefer to do. I try to be helpful and encouraging but always have a concern for the safety of the owner or others they allow to shoot the carbine.

Guys, manteo97 knows what he's talking about relative to metals and especially the metals used in carbines. Far more than I do. He's educated me and helped me a lot over the years but this particular area is his ballpark. I'm a general practioner, he's a specialist.

Jim
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