Looking for info on Presentation Case

Wow, what a beautiful stock! Welcome to the forums!

Welcome to the forum.  What a great gift of a family heirloom!  The tiger stripe stock is superb.  I look forward to hearing more about it. Thanks for sharing.

A magnificent piece of wood.
Welcome to the forum.

Thank you for all of the info and sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Here is picture you asked about I think

Outstanding...

War Baby III by Larry Ruth, p. 1093

"An initial experimental band fitted with a short lug was submitted by the Knape & Vogt Mfg. Co. After trials the bayonet lug portion was lengthened and, as noted on page 286 [War Baby I] the resulting Type 3 band was adopted on March 10, 1943." Farther along Larry indicates "Carbines so equipped were in production by October 1944".

Both the short and long lug versions are referred to as the Type III. Whereas War Baby I refers to the short version as Type II. Which I believe was a type assigned by Larry attempting to differentiate one from the other.

War Baby III illustration 1135 shows the short bayonet lug above the longer one, courtesy of Bruce Dow. The caption is "Left side views of two Type 3 front bands. Above: experimental Type 3 front band. Below: production version type 3 front band". "Accepted as standard 15 May 1944".

Illustration 1134 is "The mailer, addressed to the Winchester Repeating Arms Co., in which the experimental Type 3 front band was submitted by the Knape & Vogt Mfg. Co. on March 28, 1944." A sticker attached to the mailer indicates "Carbine Front Band Assembly - new style -" ... date on the mailer is 03/28/1944. No part number is indicated on the envelope.

I suspect the "adopted" date was when the design was adopted and the "accepted as standard" date was when the final version of the longer bayonet lug designated as the new standard.

Jmbarger, you have a very rare prototype bayonet lug. Which is not unusual for a "presentation" carbine.

Presentation carbines were built/assembled for the person, persons or occasion(s). Those that went to someone at the top of a corporate structure or similar tend to have more customization than those made in quantity as gifts to those lower than those on high. Special occasion presentations were made for the special occasion. All of them tend to have parts that were available at the time versus made at the time. To sometimes include the receivers. Prototype receivers and parts have turned up on a number of presentation builds. Not because that was being made at the time but because the parts were not going to be used on production carbines.

While many people have shot their "presentation" carbines they were capable of being fired but not always built with the intent of being fired. Such is usually the case with special presentation carbines.

The value of the various presentation carbines at the time they were presented was not with the foresight of what the value might be 50+ years later. The value when presented was that it was presented. The value now depends on a variety of things to include who it was presented to, the build with it's parts, current condition, etc. Unfortunately many have not been preserved over the years.

Yours obviously has that special value of having been presented to your grandfather as a top shooter while he was at Annapolis. No amount of money can replace that value though that special value is in the mind of the person who owns it and some people prefer the money over its history and sentimental value.

My recommendation is don't shoot it anymore. Maintain it and protect it. Preserve it as is with no part changes. Buy a different carbine to shoot.

It would be interesting to see the other parts inside the carbine as there may (or may not) be other experimental or interesting parts. Disassembling and reassembling a museum quality carbine obviously requires caution and care. Many museums prohibit it, therefore often hiding the history for which they have it.

I haven't posted the pics from War Baby III as they were provided to Larry by Bruce Dow. War Baby III does have a copyright owned by Larry and the publisher. The publisher is now deceased with the copyright being passed onto his wife. If it was just Larry I'd ask him for permission.

War Baby III is out of print. With no plans to print more. While it's not a stand alone novel, when used with the first two volumes it's a continuation of the research in the first two volumes and corrections. The publisher wouldn't do a reprint of either of the first two volumes so the third ended up being a catch all. For anyone doing serious carbine collecting the three volumes are a set to own.

I don't know if Bruce Dow has the packaging and prototype shown in War Baby III or obtained the images elsewhere. I took photos of Bruce's photos for Larry for WB III. The background in the original pics infers someone owns them as opposed to the pics having come from a manufacturer, Ordnance, etc.

Just a personal side note. At the time I went through the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Academy the top cadet in all categories assessed was deemed the "Honor Cadet". The Honor Cadet received a custom engraved Smith & Wesson revolver with the cadet class number and LASD badge and name. A common practice at many police and sheriff academies still done today. Those presentation revolvers were fully capable of being carried and used. But given the reason for their presentation most preserved them and put them on display. None of those match the significance of anything done at Annapolis. No, I didn't get the revolver. The fella who did earned it along with my respect. As has your grandfather.

Jim

Beyond condition presentation carbines can be difficult to appraise. The many handed out by Inland to various employees and affiliates of the company are different than those presented to one of the corporate managers. Inlands are more common than any of the other manufacturer presentation carbines.

Yours being a special achievement kind of presentation may make the value a little less but at the same time that it was at Annapolis may make it worth more.

It would be a good idea to put together some documentation on your grandfather and his time at Annapolis. Pictures being of big help. Info and pictures of where, when, and why he received it and him receiving it. All are important for preserving it's history. Add to this the information from War Baby on the presentation carbines made for the Navy by Inland. And where Larry got the info.

Larry welcomes calls and snail mail. He hates e-mail. If you called him or wrote to him and asked for information along with a signed copy of the relevant pages he'd probably be happy to help you out at no charge. In exchange for a few photos.

I'll pm you his contact info.

As for preserving the carbine it's simply a matter of keeping it clean, free from moisture, humidity, direct sunlight, etc. Doesn't have to be in a safe. A simple careful inspection every 6 months or a year depending on the conditions where its stored. Someone else might have better suggestions. Mine, because of where I live they stay in a safe with a safe dehumidifier. Inspected once a year.

How best to display it depends on how you want to display it. Just avoid anything that will scratch or wear on whatever part of the carbine it comes in contact with.

Jim