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Staking the Front Sight Pin

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Ghostman View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct 27 2017 at 6:49pm
After searching with the search tool using several different words or combos of words I could not find an answer. So here is my question:
 
How and what was used to stake the front sight pin in place? Has anybody seen or own the tool for this?
 
I am going to be replacing the front sight on my Inland and it has the round stake marks. It's getting a new, never used "N" (Niedner) marked front sight. How do you stake the front sight pin in place? My first guess is to use a punch, but will that move enough metal to secure the front sight pin?
 
For the other type of stake marks, horizontal marks, a slotted chisel would be my guess. Any help would be appreciated.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2017 at 5:28am
I looked in my Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual and didn't see any specifics.  Did notice the pin and hole are extremely close with the pin nominally being oversized requiring a force fit. Even with off-setting tolerances it looks like they are still within .001".  My thoughts are that any deformation of the pin/hole interface will suffice.  That is only a swag, suggest hearing from others.  I'm sure there are some who have been down this path.  
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2017 at 10:58am
Several methods were used to stake the front sight pin in place. It varied from manufacture to manufacture. It is possible that one manufacturer used several methods over time.
 
I suspect a rounded punch was used. We see the slot which would have been a chisel type tool There were stake marks that look like a tubular tool was used.
One manufacturer used a circular chisel to stake the keyway.
 
So the question is are you trying to copy what Inland did or just to adequately stake the pin in place?
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Ghostman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2017 at 2:30am
To be honest here I want to adequately stake the front sight pin in place in an appropriate manner used by Inland, in short copy Inland's staking method.
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2017 at 11:23am
though you copy what Inland did there would still be tell tale signs that it has been changed. An armature would not know the difference between stake marks. Someone knowledgeable would know the sight was changed even if the stake marks appeared correct.
 
With that I checked a few original Inlands. It seems early ones were staked with a tube like tool slightly bigger than the pin hole.
Later it looks like a rounded tool. My thought was a ball head, but it must be flat of concave so it does not strike the pin.
 
Personally on the few occasions I replaced the front sight I did not bother staking it in place.
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Ghostman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2017 at 5:57pm
Working in the aviation field, I was thinking maybe a 3/32 rivet set head on a pneumatic or hand rivet squeeze may work. This is a hand squeezer with interchangeable heads or sets. We have these, pneumatic hammers and pneumatic squeezers. Although meant for aluminum rivets, the soft steel would probably work.  
Depending on how the new sight is, it may not get staked either. Just looking at it from all angles. I don't want to pass it off as original, but restored and correct!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2017 at 6:11pm
It is very difficult to stake or crimp the front sight pin by hand even if you do have a proper tubular crimping tool like Dan described. I know, I've tried it a few times and the results were less than attractive.

The pins were originally crimped, at least at Inland, using "A horizontal air cylinder and fixture...", described in War Baby III, pgs. 937,938.

I agree with Dan and suggest not recrimping the pin as long as it's not loose. This is what might result without a proper assembly fixture:





Otherwise your sight will look like this if you choose not to recrimp:

JackP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghostman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2017 at 6:53pm
Thanks JackP! I appreciate the advice! Is the top pic the correct staking with proper fixure? And is the bottom pic with the indented circle the wrong fixture or is it the dented ears?
 
Thanks to the members who suggested buying the Matrix Mfg tools! I bought the nylon vice blocks, Pin pusher, sight puller and sight installing tools from Matrix on Ebay! Worth the money spent on them! I can endorse the first 3 tools! I haven't used the installation tool yet, still waiting on the Niedner (N) sights to arrive. They are NOS and have never been installed on a rifle before. So you see my dilemma! Ermm They have never been staked!
 
The old Underwood (.U.) sight came off pretty easily! I used some grease on the barrel in front of the sight, and put 1 layer of painter's tape on the sight and behind it so as no to mar up the barrel or sight. It worked!
 
I'm now massing spare parts! I have several Underwood parts (slide, front sight and flat bolt) Inland T2 mix master TH complete, & spare civilian collapsible wire stock w/metal HG. Most are handy to have if you shoot in case of catastrophic failures! Smile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2017 at 8:14pm
Ghostman:

The top picture is my unsuccessful attempt to match Inland's crimping on a replacement sight. See how it's uneven and lacking in depth? The other side looks just as bad.

The bottom picture is of another carbine intended to show an uncrimped pin that had been replaced showing the small flare or burr resulting from it's prior removal. I think it looks better than the one I attempted to crimp. Your new sight would look even better. The ding in the ear was already there before replacing the sight. The original sight was in much worse shape.

Unfortunately, I don't have an example of "correct" staking.
JackP
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