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Replacement stock with CC Cartouche? |
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W5USMC 
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 Topic: Replacement stock with CC Cartouche?Posted: Aug 24 2017 at 10:29am |
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My S'G' has from what I understand is a wartime replacement stock on it, it is marked with a J in the sling well which I believe is for Jewell Bros. It has a very small CC Cartouche that measures 9/32 in diameter on the right side and has a saginaw serial # just above the oiler slot (not my carbine's serial#). Also marked MR on right side. My questions are. Was it common practice for replacement stocks to have a CC Cartouche? And is the MR a Mount Rainier rebuild marking?
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Wayne
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Aug 24 2017 at 4:17pm |
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Jewel had a mini CC we call the hot dog CC as the bottom of canon looks like a hot dog.
For some reason that does not look as I remember. Is your measurement the canon or belt diameter?
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W5USMC
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Posted: Aug 24 2017 at 8:29pm |
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My cartouche measurement was belt diameter.
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Wayne
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David Albert
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Posted: Aug 24 2017 at 8:41pm |
Yes, That is a Mount Rainier Ordnance Depot rebuild mark. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Aug 25 2017 at 9:05pm |
 This CC has a 3/32 belt. Most templates have errors. Amazingly exact copies of published CCs have shown up with those errors. As mentioned the one I have seen the bottom of the canon looks like a hot dog as it was curved.I do not know if the jury is out on who actually made the J marked stock. As you see here it is listed as Jamestown Lounge. There are JL-B stocks which we know as Jamestown. There are P-J assumed to be Pederson Bros for Jewel. then the spares with large J Jewel made metal parts and may have subcontracted the stocks as a spares contract. So who actually made them? As to yours I really cannot make out the detail. Maybe pictures at different angles you could see more detail. Given its size and consistent condition with rest of stock I would venture that it is a correct CC found on those stocks
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W5USMC
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Posted: Aug 25 2017 at 10:22pm |
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Thanks Dan, going to try to get better pictures of the cartouche, but it is very light and pretty hard to see. I was going with Jewel vice Jamestown based on post I read on another forum by Bill Ricca, hopefully I can find that post again. Regardless of who made the stock my question about CC Cartouches on replacement stocks has been answered.
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Wayne
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Sep 10 2017 at 8:25pm |
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W5USMC
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Posted: Sep 10 2017 at 8:53pm |
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Dan,
Just saw it. Did you know that was a J marked stock by seeing his pic of the CC cartouche? I did manage to find the info about the J marked stock that I mentioned above. It was on Bill Ricca's page of myths. (http://www.billricca.com/myths.htm) where he says J marked Stock, Jewel Bros., production was Aug44-Apr45
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Wayne
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Sep 10 2017 at 8:57pm |
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Hotdog CC as I remember it!
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W5USMC
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Posted: Sep 10 2017 at 9:01pm |
I see what you are talking about, it does look very different than the CC on my J stock. The J's look very much the same though.
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Wayne
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Sep 10 2017 at 9:21pm |
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I would not say different, just not a good enough photo to go by. However lets look at in a different perspective (upside down)
 Hmm, look at the trunion, aon yours are we looking at the breech or muzzle at lower left?
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W5USMC
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Posted: Sep 10 2017 at 10:01pm |
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Dan,
I thought I was looking at the breech on the lower left. Maybe they are the same and I just can't make out the hotdog side. The darn thing is so faint it is hard to get better pictures.   |
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Wayne
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Sep 10 2017 at 10:23pm |
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Number one mistake people make ius trying to take closeup. Put camera on high setting. Pull camera back so it can focus better. Then crop the picture. Playing with lighing also helps. Could try bringing light to level of stock to help shadows from the CC.
New pic at 2 O'clock i think i see a reminent of hotdog |
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kar6666
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Posted: Nov 01 2018 at 3:32pm |
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I am glad to see someone besides me asking about this. Probably 20+ years ago on the old Carbine Club I ask about this CC on replacement stocks and all I got back was the J was a replacement stock. That never satisfied me but I just gave up and dropped it at the time. I have had more than one J stock and they all had the CC on them. Why would a replacement stock have a CC on it. What I always thought was the CC was the last acceptance that was applied after the carbine passed all the tests that they got. Just like the rebuild mark showed they were accepted after rebuild. I could understand a rebuild mark after stock replacement but not a CC.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Nov 01 2018 at 4:07pm |
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kar, As I search more and more I can say that I believe the P-J and large J to both be Jewel Brothers contract stocks.
Jewel is listed in an accounting book which only records contracts over a certain amount. The P-J is believed to be Pedersen Brothers to Jewel just as the P-U is Pedersen to Underwood. I have observed that tiny CC with the hot dog looking breech on P-U, P-J, and large J stocks. Another recent observation based on other recent posts is that they all have an RA-P mark on the heel. So is there a connection to Raritan Arsenal and that CC. Did they get the leftover stocks from Pedersen, Underwood, Jewel for a rebuild? Remember that Springfield Armory used a CC on their rebuilds. So I ask anyone with any stock with the mini CC please check the heal very carefully and report findings.
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painter777
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Posted: Nov 01 2018 at 4:37pm |
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Best Jewell Bros Stock CC Stamp I've ever handled:
 Currently a J and CC in the slingwell stock on Ebay:  |
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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W5USMC
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Posted: Nov 01 2018 at 8:03pm |
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There also is a J stock currently on whatacountry, it also has the CC in the sling well and RA-P on the heal.
The J stock that I own, the one pictured in the top post, does not have RA-P on the heal. |
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Wayne
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Nov 01 2018 at 8:29pm |
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Wayne, consider the condition of the CC, the Mount Reiner mark, could the RA-P have been long sanded?
If you look at the hunterman post both stocks the original responce was no RA-P but close examination of photos show it was stamped |
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W5USMC
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Posted: Nov 01 2018 at 9:51pm |
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Yes Dan, I saw the other post, I looked at mine with all types of lighting and magnification. Mine does have a 2 digit rack # stamped on the heal. You may be correct about it possibly being sanded off.
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Wayne
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W5USMC wrote: