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ddellaro View Drop Down
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Joined: Jul 15 2017
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    Posted: Jul 23 2017 at 6:39pm
Greetings to you all...I'm Devin.  I inherited a Winchester Carbine from my dad (pic below), and you can see it doesn't have a normal wartime-issue stock!  So here's the story (as it was told to me).  My dad purchased this Carbine at Montgomery Wards after the war.  I don't know whether it was sold with or without a stock, but if it did have one, I don't know what became of it.  Dad bought a Fajen stock for it, and that's what you see in the photo.  I'm not sure how much fitting & finishing my dad had to do with this stock, but he was an excellent woodworker, so it wouldn't have been a problem for him.  And after all these decades, the gun still looks and shoots as new!  Another interesting point about this gun: the trigger guard and trigger group casing isn't blued metal.  Instead, it has a reddish-brown color, and I'm not sure what the material is.
 
 
So here's a mystery, for those who might be interested.  While attempting to document the serial number for this gun (pic below), I noticed it doesn't have the correct number of digits for a Winchester Carbine model M1, M1A1, or M2 (according to the list of s/n's on uscarbinecal30.com).  I had to remove the Williams rear sight to expose the full s/n, so this sight is missing in the picture above.  If it is a model T4, then I'm not sure how to interpret the "used standard s/n" statement on the website.  You can see from the picture (sorry that the focus isn't ideal) that the s/n isn't centered on the word "Winchester."  Also, the leading "6" is partially worn away.  So, if the true leading digit is actually completely worn away (not sure how THAT would've happened), and if the model is M1, M1A1, or M2, then that missing leading digit must be a "5" in order for the "638044" portion to line up with the published range of Winchester s/n's on the website.
 
 
Well, that's the gun and the story.  Again, thanks for the opportunity to introduce myself, and I welcome your comments & questions on any of this!
 
Best Regards,
Devin   
DDR
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sling00 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 23 2017 at 8:15pm
Welcome to the forum.  This is an interesting rifle you have.  Is it a high gloss blued finish?  There are lots of folks here to help out on your questions.  Any chance you can get a picture of the rifle with the stock removed?  Also are there any markings on the trigger guard?

Again, welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your rifle.  I look forward to to the replies you'll get.

Regards
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David Albert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 23 2017 at 9:26pm
ddellaro,

Welcome to the board!

Yours is very similar to some Carbines that were offered for sale in the 1960's, when sporterization was quite common. Here is a link you may enjoy...See the 8th advertisement down from the top.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/carbine-ads-in-shotgun-news-19601975_topic2550.html?KW=shotgun

Welcome!

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association
Amer. Society of Arms Collectors
OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA
SAR Writer
Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising
Eagle Scout
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New2brass View Drop Down
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Joined: Nov 29 2015
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 23 2017 at 10:40pm
Devin, Welcome to the club.
What a beautiful example of a sportsterized carbine!
As Dave had pointed out it was quite popular in the 60's which I believe is when your dad would have been able to purchase from Montgomery Wards.
One of the first books for collecting carbines was "Carbine Handbook" by Paul Wahl which has a chapter on how to sportsterize your carbine.
 
the reason for the plum color on the trigger housing is common. It is caused by the wrong temperature when attempting to blue the trigger housing. I believe it is the metal composition that is different that requires a different temperature.
 
I think I read about a similar 6 digit Winchester recently. Did you post the question elsewhere? I think you are spot on with it missing the 5. If you read through posts you will find there are many marking errors on carbines.
The numbers look consistent for a 5 million Winchester.
I do like that the writing was kept or engraved to "in the white" Curious as to why the dovetail is in the white.
 
I believe the T4 was the prelude to the M2. Inland would have used X prefix serial numbers but Winchester went another route with a "number 3 mechanism" which was used with regular serial numbered carbines from production.
The Inland would have had T4 on the front ring. I do not believe Winchester would have, but never say never.
 
If you are going to remove the stock as Sling00 asked I would request a few pictures to make a better determination on what the receiver is.
On bottom of receiver there may be a marking forward the front trigger housing lug.
Look for proof marks on barrel if not polished off. Approximate the distance from the muzzle.
Side of receiver details would also help. Right side more so for the slide channel details. Left for the trigger housing lug.
Front Ring, with slide removed or pulled back.
 
Are the parts all Winchester or a mixed lot? Is the inside of receiver blued as well?
 
Best, Dan
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m1a1fan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 24 2017 at 7:53am
Devin,

Welcome to the club. What a nice carbine! Bet it is a hoot to shoot.
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Charles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 24 2017 at 8:52am
Nice job "marrying" the Tiger maple to what looks a repair job.
Welcome aboard.
Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg.
29th. Divi.
4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired
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