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Erma werke mod.e m1.22 questions

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Squirrel View Drop Down
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    Posted: Feb 03 2017 at 11:42am
Hello I have a Erma Werke Mod.E m1.22 I have a few questions about. First it's serial number is E145xxx it was imported by Excam inc out of Florida. I found a date that it was imported but can't find what year it was made..it is stamped on the left side Erma Werke made in Germany and mod.E M1.22 and the serial number and the Erma stamp. It doesn't how ever have any of the nitro proof marks.
Second it is having feeding issues. I took it to the gun shop and the cleaned the gun and fired it a few times and said it was good . When I went to test it it shot fine for 2-3 times then jamed I started thinking it was the magazine spring was to warn out,so I pulled it apart and made sure it was clean and put it back together. It seemed to work a bit better but still jamed . I tried round nose and hollow points and they both seem to jam! When I first got the gun it worked great but after a few times of plinking it started jaming and I'm wondering if anyone else had this problem or know the fix? I did order a new mag but it hasn't arrived yet. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2017 at 12:31pm
Does it seem to matter how many rounds are loaded into the magazine? If not already done so...just load 2-3 and see if it makes any difference. Try some "really good" ammo...like CCI stingers. Even some of the Remington and Winchester stuff you purchase can be marginal. Try the strong stuff.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2017 at 1:24pm
Not familiar with .22 but M1 carbines have a breech brush to clean what a regular bore brush doesn't clean, also take the mag spring out and make sure the round part at the top is under the back of the casing. I have some older mags I was having troubles with, I pulled the springs out to increase their  length by about 1/2" to 3/4", problem solved.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 03 2017 at 3:52pm
22 semi-autos are notorious for this problem and one of the worst of the semi-autos that had these problems were the Walther PPK, PPKS and the TPH in 22LR. One common fix was to load the magazine light, or hunt-n-peck for the ammo it would shoot. I've also had success with adjusting springs. The posters gun is not likely one that magazines are plentiful for, but adjusting feed-lips was often necessary. I'd be very careful with that though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2017 at 5:18am
Squirrel,

I'm the person who authored the web pages on the EM1. The function aspects were with a great deal of help from a friend in England. He authored the animations on this website including those of the EM1. He more experience with the EM1's than anyone I've met. He and his wife shoot competitively with their EM1's.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_em1.html

Regarding the feeding issue I've asked him to join the forum and thread to see if he can be of help. I'll give him a few days before trying to help myself.

It would help us to know the point at which the cartridge/bullet stops and if it's consistently the same place when it fails to feed. The most common I've seen is the bullet nose stops against the ramp just below the chamber. Damaging the nose of lead bullets absent a coating. A photo may be easier than a long description. Whatever works for you.

As to when your EM1 was made I can help a bit.

Excam brought EM1's into the USA for only a year or two about 1978-1980. Given the few I've seen over the years the quantities were likely not many. Those I have info on, none have the proof marks required by West Germany at the time.

I can only guess on why no proof marks but my guess is from having seen other manufacturers in countries requiring proof marks sell unproofed guns here in the USA. The most recent being Chiappa (Italy) when they first started selling their .22 replica's of the M1 Carbine. Both Italy and Germany require the proof marks on firearms with the focus of proof testing being the barrel, bolt and receiver. If barrels are made as extras or not attached to a receiver both countries require the barrel be proof tested before it can be sold or exported. Not so the bolt or receiver. Historically barrels are what brought about proof testing in the first place. So check your barrel closely.

Excam likely imported the EM1 in parts and assembled them here in the USA. Most often done to circumvent import/export laws and/or taxes in effect at the time. If the barrel has no proof marks the manufacturer shipped them out without declaring them as gun barrels. My guess is to avoid the cost of having them proofed. Given the quantity Erma Werke made for distribution worldwide they likely had one or more government proof house personnel assigned to their facility to expedite the process.

Chiappa started having them proofed after their local government proof house learned of what they were doing. While I know it's a crime I don't know the usual punishment.

Erma Werke failing to have the barrel proof tested may have been discovered or they may have decided on their own it wasn't worth the risk. Those after Excam came in through Iver Johnson Arms and have the proof marks. They were assembled when imported as were those by the other importer with possibly the exception of RG Industries.

RG preceded Excam and were somehow related at some point in time I don't recall at the moment. I have yet to see any with an RG import mark. RG became Erma Werke's U.S. Distributor after L.A. Distributors stopped importing them by 1970 or 1971. L.A. Dist. stopped, according to Anthony Imperato (the A in L.A. with the L being his dad Louis) due to the import restrictions that were part of the 1968 Gun Control Act that also was the start of the import mark requirement (and ATF). I'm not convinced RG brought any in at all. As with Beeman, deals were made and advertisements sent out before the actual product arrived. Beeman cancelled their deal with Erma Werke after the ads.

I have info on several EM1's with the Excam import mark. One starts with E145. I have the entire serial number. If you would prefer I can PM the entire s/n to you. The info I have is only from what I saw on an auction website or someone shared the info. I'll have to check to see if I have pics. Would have been over 5 years ago.

Date of manufacture we can estimate knowing the serial numbers and proof marks I have before and after yours: 1975-1980. Knowing Erma was selling them as fast as they could make them it was probably closer to 1977-1978. Best estimate.

One thing that would be helpful to the web pages on Erma is a good pic of the Excam import mark. The one I have is not that great.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squirrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2017 at 12:59pm
I have the photo of the Excam stamping on the barrel but I can't post it it's to big and I'm not sure how to resize it from my phone but if you give me an email address I could email you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Squirrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2017 at 12:19pm
In regards to where it jams before I had the gun shop clean clean it it seemed that the round would stop on the feed ramp below the chamber but last time I shot it the round was making it to the chamber but jaming or getting pinched halfway in the chamber.i had to pull it out of the chamber and the cartridge would have a pinch mark. When the weather breaks I'll go shot it and take pics of the problem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2017 at 12:58pm
Try polishing the feed ramp if possible, I found it helpful on my .30 carbine having the same problem. I am not suggesting using a die grinder, polishing can be done with tooth past on a piece of cloth.
Charles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2017 at 7:47pm
My suggestion is not to make any changes to the firearm itself without first trying different magazines. In this type of issue with almost any firearm, the magazine has a very high likelihood of being the culprit. It may be that the magazine has deformed feed lips, or the spring may be the issue. See if you can obtain another magazine or two, even an aftermarket magazine, to determine if the same issue occurs. After the magazine determination is made, then you could consider whether any changes to the firearm itself are necessary. You can always replace a magazine. You cannot easily replace metal removed from the gun.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2017 at 6:56am
I agree...the last thing you want to do is monkey with the feed ramp on a special gun. More than a few have been ruined by an over-zealous somebody with a die grinder. I do it, but on run-of-the-mill common guns. I have an M1 9-mil carbine that will only shoot jacketed ammo. It will not feed anything cast. I could polish the feed ramp, but not on a gun of which only 2100 were ever made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 23 2017 at 8:33am
Squirrel, sorry to take so long. Just too busy as a norm.

As I indicated in an earlier post, it would help to know at what point the bullet/cartridge "jams", aka stops. It makes a world of difference in trying to figure out why you are having the problem.

Most everyone looks at the magazine spring first. Not a bad idea but many times the magazine spring isn't the issue.

Take a look at the two animations here: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_EM3.html. Right click on the animation image and for speed select slow for slow motion.

Typically with the EM1 the bullet nose of the cartridge will hit and stop on the feed ramp just below the chamber. There are a couple possibilities for the cause of this.

The lips at the top of the magazine can become bent/deformed over time. This can impair the movement of the bolt and it's ability to push the next round out of the magazine. Sometimes the lips being bent just slows the forward movement of the bolt enough that it won't push the cartridge completely into the chamber.

But anything that affects the power of the forward movement of the bolt can do the same. The recoil spring or any worn metal moving into the path of the bolt that slows it down.

Also try pushing up on the bottom of the magazine then firing the rifle. Vary the pressure and front vs back of the magazine. This may help to identify a magazine seating issue or those lips at the top of the magazine being the problem. If the mag catch is worn the magazine may sit too low and cause the problem.

I'd focus on the position of the magazine, the lips on top of the magazine and checking to make sure the bolt isn't slowed by something.

Watch the animations in slow motion and closely, paying attention to the path the bullet show take on it's way into the chamber.

Jim
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