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Bavarian Winchester

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rhineriver View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 09 2016 at 2:57pm
At a local gun shop I jumped on a nice Bavarian Winchester Carbine.
Here are the Details (according to Craig Riesch's book M1 Carbines, Wartime prod. 6th Edition)
 

Receiver type IB, (spring tube) Winchester Serial no. 11182xx

Barrel, type I, W, Winchester proof mark

Rear sight, type III, J.A.O. 7160060

Bolt, type II, SG

Firing pin, type I, W

Extractor, type III, W.I.

Ejector, type I

Barrel band, type IA, unmarked

Front sight, type I, L

Operating slide, type III SG

Operating slide spring housing, type II, unmarked

Trigger housing, type III, SG

Hammer, type III, W (Winchester)

Trigger, type II, LT-Q

Sear, type II, .U.

Mag catch, type IIA, EP-Q

Safety, type III, unmarked

Stock, type I, IO and flaming bomb into sling well, no ordnance acceptance marking visible

Butplate, probably IBM

Recoil plate, type II, DI

Handguard, type I, SG

 

Finish: The Receiver appears blued and has a dull shine. Barrel appears also blued but glossy. The trigger housing has the light copper color. I refer to Mr. Mock’s Bavarian carbines site, where the reason will be described in detail.

Unusual is the fact that the Carbine has not typical Bavarian marking. There are no evidences on stock, receiver, recoil plate and trigger housing that there was ever a marking that has been removed later. The Stock was sanded but has no rebuild marking.

Another strange marking is the SG on the handguard. There is no evidence that there was ever a R (SG)

The sling did not came with the carbine. It is a later type C with a darker green colored webbing.

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rhineriver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhineriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2016 at 2:59pm
some more pics
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rhineriver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhineriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2016 at 3:01pm
some more pics
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rhineriver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhineriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2016 at 3:03pm
some more pics
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rhineriver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhineriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2016 at 3:08pm
and the last ones
 
The Receiver appears not blued because of the flash light from camera.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aschaefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2016 at 4:29pm
Congratulations, looks very nice! And nice pictures too.
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J.R.2009 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J.R.2009 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2016 at 8:28am
Ya gots a winner there!!!
J.R.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J.R.2009 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2016 at 8:34am
On second look at the left side of the receiver I see, like you did, no evidence of a Bavarian police department. My Bavarian Rural Police and all the other Bavarian's all had a marking or at least showed that it had been ground off. The top of the receiver, left side looks untouched in the pic. Still a winner though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2016 at 9:10pm
I often wonder if there are "original" Bavarians as in something they received (in original condition) was kept as is other than the markings applied and sent back the same. How about a Bavairian lineout or Bavarian UN-Q.

Just curious, how far is the W on the barrel from the muzzle end?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2016 at 9:38pm
I've got a Bavarian Underwood that as it left the factory other than the replacement handguard some German or Austrian put on it. They even went so far as to stamp the Underwood's complete serial number on the replacement handguard. Most of the Bavarian carbines I've seen are a mix of parts, but with a fair amount to even a lot of original looking parts on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhineriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 19 2016 at 3:48pm

When you see Sleeplessnashadow's site there are some bavarians in original condition. I think the most of them during the time went trough several inspections by the troops and the armories. So the carbines were disasembled and mixed with other carbine parts. Ifa carbine was blued by the Germans they did not take care on the manufacturers parts when puting together. I think they took a bunch of carbines, disasembled them, blued them in the factory and when the parts came back no one took care when put them together.
 
PS: I will check the distance from w to the muzzle end as soon as possible . From first look its the same distance than I found on my other Winchester Serial number 57957xx.
 
Thanks for your Inputs!


Edited by sleeplessnashadow - Dec 21 2023 at 6:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 19 2016 at 6:04pm
In the "Armory" section is a link to the bavarians with many pics for each.

http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/Armory.html

By the way, if you click on top banner you will be taken to main pages.

You may have the German parts swap a little wrong. Or I got German vs Austrian stories crossed.
Previous to the M1 carbine guns were hand fitted. The M1 carbine broke that tradition. The carbines that stayed in Austria and Germany had many that all the parts were serialized so as not to accidentally swap parts. (Old school thinking)
This was a great help in the Carbine club research figuring parts markings and serial ranges.
Swapped parts may have been before they received them.

Also possible they did swap parts or build from spares.
There is also a great many spares that were imported by the CMP and were assembled here.
One thing for certain is you front sight is a Lyman made for Winchester and desirable to collectors.

Thanks for sharing.



Edited by sleeplessnashadow - Dec 21 2023 at 6:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rhineriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 20 2016 at 12:07pm
I have another bavarian. A NPM. This one is just marked on the Trigger guard with LP and a four digit number. I like these bavarians because they are often fittet with the type I and two bands and on my Winchester the barrel and Receiver group seems factory original. Thank's for your comments guys.
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