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Federal Ordnance Unusual Receiver Updated Photos

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TravisDeem View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jun 11 2016 at 8:16pm
I have a Federal Ordnance (SN 50992) sitting in jail waiting for 10 days to pass (I live in CA) and I reviewed the information on the maker provided by this site.  I noticed that the receiver does not match the other examples and I thought I would share some quick photos I took at the dealer.  The cast receiver appears to have had the Federal Ordnance info engraved with a burr as opposed to being cast as in the other examples. In remaining respects the gun seems typical of others of this type.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 12 2016 at 12:41am
Did you scroll down to second carbine in Federal Ordnance page which would be in your serial number range?
the example used appears to have been blasted and possibly refinished.
 
 Maybe they engraved them due to casting problems.
 
Once you get it out of jail maybe we can see some better pictures.
 
*Edit* yours looks more like first block . Does the Front ring say ML or M1?
I am sure some here would be interested in see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TravisDeem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 12 2016 at 1:22am
Once I get it home I will take some better pictures. I did not get a picture of the M1 / ML but I do recall it looking like it was cast.  The lettering for the maker name is so uneven and crude that I doubt it was cast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2016 at 12:40am
When you can take more pics I'd like to see them. A bit larger than those previously posted would be great as my eyes can't make out the details.

I owned two of the Fed Ord carbines shown on the web pages I built for Fed Ord. Also spoke with a number of employees while doing the research. Including Bob Brenner before he died.

The receivers they used were cast but from a couple different sources. They had a situation where they had the parts and needed receivers to put them on so picked up the receivers as surplus left over from prior companies. I can probably ID which company made it if I can get a look at the mold marks on the rear of the receiver.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TravisDeem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 19 2016 at 12:30am
Jim,

I am now even more convinced that the Federal Ordnance name was engraved.  My camera picked up what might be evidence that a prior makers label had been scrubbed.  You can see in the updated photo rough marks that might be from a grinding wheel.

Travis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 19 2016 at 3:03am
Looks like one of the receivers cast for and used by Iver Johnson's Arms during their latter years in Middlesex, NJ, 1980-1983. The dots with U.S. and CAL were sometimes there sometimes not. But the manner in which the markings were offset was consistent. The missing right leg of the R wasn't always present but fairly common.

When IJ was bought and moved to AR in 1983 many of these receivers were in various stages of completion. They appear sporadically at the beginning and end of production in AR 1983-1987. Different logo and markings were used in AR 1983-1987 and 1987-1992.












The reinforced lug was started by Plainfield and carried over into IJ, IAI and now Auto Ordnance and Inland Mfg.


Casting mold marks at the rear are a bit unique and not on all receivers with the reinforced lug.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_ij04.html

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TravisDeem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 19 2016 at 9:23pm
Jim,

Are these generally considered decent receivers?  I take possession of the rifle tomorrow and will strip it down to see where the other parts are from and look for potential problems.  If you are interested in any other data on the rifle let me know and I will send pictures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 19 2016 at 9:49pm
Yes, receivers have been good ones. I would expect many surplus GI parts on yours. Receiver pics showing all sides and closer of markings would be appreciated.

Be interesting to see what they used for a barrel.

I own s/n 51781.

Thanks

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TravisDeem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2016 at 1:50am
So I brought it home today and tore it apart.  With the exception of the front sight (marked "P") and bolt (marked "W") and hammer and rear sight (both marked H.I.) none of the parts have any sort of markings. The trigger housing and operating slide match the pictures you have of Iver Johnson cast parts. The only interesting thing is that the barrel appears to be one piece and looks exactly like Underwood barrels I have seen. There are no markings of any kind on the barrel, it has six lands and grooves and is in perfect condition.  The barrel parkerizing does have that funny green tint that you see sometimes on older milsurps and is noticeably different that the rest of the gun's finish.  Looking forward to your thoughts on all this.

















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TravisDeem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2016 at 2:37am
Scratch what I said about a one piece barrel. Upon much closer inspection I can see that it was bored, rebarreled and soldered.  The machining is just so tight that there was not an observable gap between the two pieces. I picked at it with a dental tool and can now see a very thin solder line around the barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2016 at 4:16am
The Fed Ord carbines I've seen so far have all had barrels constructed using a bored out rear half of a GI carbine barrel, for the gas piston housing and correct GI dimensions. Into this is inserted a barrel with the lands and grooves. The two are then silver soldered or brazed together.

While this may sound bad, it's an accepted way of making barrels and has been for a long time. Green Mountain Rifle Barrels makes them for Auto Ordnance and Inland Mfg commercial carbines. But not using a GI rear half. There's a gunsmith in Canada currently using this technique to lengthen barrels to meet Canada's laws. Inland and Winchester did this with some of their first carbine barrels.

Fed Ord didn't do as good a job as some in grinding down the metal at the breach end to make it difficult to see. Below is a barrels made and used by Fed Ord for their carbines.



Early Smith Corona 1903A3 barrels were 6 grooves. Plainfield and Iver Johnson also used 6 grooves. The gas piston housing on the latter two was brazed into a dovetail in the bottom of the barrel. Fed Ord may have gotten rejects and corrected them with this technique. May have.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TravisDeem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2016 at 10:55am
Thanks for all the info Jim!  This has been a great learning experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swamprat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 12 2018 at 10:28pm
I have a couple federal ordnance receivers if they would be of any use for your research, I have a Nikon D3400 and precision measuring tools (starrett micrometers etc). I have an EXP marked experimental and one of the production run, around number 150.

You know how to get a hold of me if it's helpful.

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