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TRIVIA QUESTION |
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Louis Losi 
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 Posted: May 28 2023 at 1:09pm |
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I just realized that the picture I posted the A1 was not hand stamped but part of the original nomenclature although I do have, somewhere, a picture with the A1 hand stamped. The trivia question still needs to be answere.
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W5USMC
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Posted: May 28 2023 at 1:12pm |
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The Army XXX'd out the A1 when they sold the guns to the Police departments. The M1A1 has the fixed firing pin and could slam fire if not released properly. The M1 has the free floating firing pin and was "safer" for Police and civilians.
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Wayne
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 28 2023 at 3:12pm |
Incorrect answer.
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W5USMC
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Posted: May 28 2023 at 3:57pm |
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Just going with what I read on machinegunboards.
Edited by W5USMC - May 28 2023 at 5:00pm |
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Wayne
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 28 2023 at 4:55pm |
The answer you previously gave is incorrect. You may have missed it but the answer was in the link you posted.
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W5USMC
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Posted: May 28 2023 at 5:02pm |
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How about this Louis,
"The arsenal only had M1 bolts available when it was inspected and or overhauled" |
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Wayne
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 28 2023 at 5:47pm |
That is the correct answer, but it works both ways. There are two types of bolts. The original M1 Thompson bolt that contained a firing and a hammer. The M1A1 Thompson's bolt eliminated the firing pin and hammer, the firing pin tip being machine onto the bolt face. Easier to manufacture but interchangeable with either the M1 or M1A1 Thompsons. In my original trivia, a letter A and the number 1 was hand stamped after CALIBER .45 M1. There came a time for this M1 Thompson to be overhauled or rebuilt. The armorers replaced the M1 bolt with the M1A1 bolt, thus the addition of the hand stamped A1. Later this now M1A1 Thompson was again returned to be overhauled or rebuilt. This time there were no M1A1 bolts but M1 bolts were in inventory, so the M1 bolt was used converting this M1A1 Thompson back to it's original configuration. The A1 designation need to be Xed out to make this Thompson, again, an M1 Thompson. In the M1A1 picture I posted, this Thompson was manufactured and assembled with the M1A1 bolt, thus the M1A1 designation. This M1A1 Thompson, eventually, needed to overhauled or rebuilt. Again, the lack of M1A1 bolts resulted in using an M1 bolt. This required Xing out the A1, thus making it an M1 Thompson. I've seen a picture of a .30 cal. BMG where the 17 in M1917 was Xed out and 19A4 added when the water cooled M1917 was converted to the air cooled M1919A4. I've seen a pictured .30 cal. M1919A4 where the 4 was Xed out and a 6 was added converting the M1919A4 to M1919A6. Later if the M1919A6 was converted back to the original M1919A4 configuration, the 6 would be Xed out and a 4 added.
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 4:02pm |
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U.S. MILIARY M1911/M1911A1 .45 ACP TRIVIA
If you agree, disagree or partially agree with the following statement, explain why. With regards to WWI and WWII production of the M1911 and M1911A1 .45 ACP military pistols, the Ordnance Department assigns a specific block of serial numbers to a manufacturer, not repeating that block of numbers to another manufacturer. Each manufacturer being given a different block of serial numbers. With regards to WWI and WWII production of the M1911 and M1911A1 .45 ACP military pistols, serial numbers included only numbers, no letter preceeding the serial number. Only commercial Colt Government Model .45 ACP pistols had serial numbers preceeded by the letter C which stood for Commercial.
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Marty Black
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 6:17pm |
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This must be a trick question, because my answer is too simple and obvious...The military inventoried small arms by serial number, not by manufacturer.
With more than one manufacturer producing the same weapon, be it a .45 pistol, an M1 or a Carbine, etc., each manufacturer needed a specific block of serial numbers that weren't duplicated by another manufacturer of the same weapon. Of course, we've seen examples of the same serial number accidentally placed on weapons of different manufacturers, creating duplicate serial numbers and confusion. An X or D being placed after the serial number of one of the weapons. Regards, mb |
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Marty Black
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Smokpole
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 6:26pm |
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I don't think that's it Marty. I have a Remington 1911a1 that has a duplicate of a Colt serial number, but it doesn't have any letter associated with the serial number. I suspect it has more to do with 1911s being rebuilt to 1911a1 standards.
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OGCA Life member
NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 6:30pm |
Incorrect answer, Marty.
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 30 2023 at 6:58pm |
You are correct. Your Remington originally began as a Remington M1911, introduction of the M1911A1 began in 1924, so your Remington was converted at a later time. In 1918 Remington was assigned block serial numbers 1 to 13152, by the Ordnance Department. In the years 1912 to 1913 the Ordnance Department assigned Colt block serial numbers 1 to 17251. These Remington serial numbers are duplicates of Colt Serial numbers. This solves one half of the trivia. With regards to WWI and WWII production of the M1911 and M1911A1 .45 ACP military pistols, serial numbers included only numbers, no letter preceeding the serial number. Only commercial Colt Government Model .45 ACP pistols had serial numbers preceeded by the letter C which stood for Commercial. Is this statement correct or incorrect. Explain why.
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 31 2023 at 11:17am |
Clue to solving this trivia. Statement is incorrect. There was a group of .45 ACP military pistols with a letter preceding the serial number. What possible explanation can there be?
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Marty Black
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Posted: May 31 2023 at 2:06pm |
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Singer put an S in front of their serial number. Why, I dunno. Perhaps because Singer's contract was an Educational Order for only 500 pistols.
Regards, mb |
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Marty Black
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Marty Black
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Posted: May 31 2023 at 2:21pm |
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Also, arsenals and Springfield Armory use an X prefix on thousands of pistols, from the interwar years thru WWII and the Korean War. My understanding is that these were stolen/recovered pistols with damaged or obliterated serial numbers that needed to be re-serial numbered.
Regards, mb |
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Marty Black
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Louis Losi
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Posted: May 31 2023 at 3:50pm |
You are 100% correct, Marty. In 1942 S.MFG. CO(Singer) of Elizabeth, New Jersey manufactured 500 M1911A1 military .45 ACP pistols that were serial numbered from S800001 to S800500 that were reported to have been distributed to the United States Army Air Force in 1942. It was an educational order only, perhaps that explains the S prefixed serial numbers.
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Louis Losi
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Posted: Jun 01 2023 at 4:55pm |
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COLT GOVERNMENT MODEL .45 ACP PISTOL TRIVIA
The Colt Government Model .45 ACP pistol is the civilian version of the military M1911/M1911A1 pistols. Up until 1950 the Government Model .45 ACP pistol's serial numbers were preceded by the letter C for Civilian. What explanation is there for a Government Model pistol with the letter W preceding the serial number?
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W5USMC
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Posted: Jun 01 2023 at 5:16pm |
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Chambered in .455 Webley
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Wayne
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Louis Losi
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Posted: Jun 01 2023 at 6:51pm |
Your are 100% correct. First, let me correct an error in my trivia post that C means Civilian, that is incorrect, C means Commercial. The British earlier rejected the .45 ACP cartridge in favor of the already adopted .455 cal. Webley & Scott cartridge. Colt, seeing an opportunity to sell Government Model pistols in Britain chambered for the .455 cal. Webley cartridge produced a number of these pistols with serial numbers preceded by a C. These were intended for Commercial sales, not military sales. WWI changed that when Britain was buying any pistols chambered for the .455 cal. Webley cartridge and in 1915 Britain acquired a numberof these Colt Government .455 Webley pistols with serial numbers C29001 to C30500. In the same year Britain negotiated with Colt to produce Government Model pistols in .455 cal. Webley for military use. This resulted in Colt Government Model .455 cal Webley pistols with serial numbers W100001 to W110692 in 1917. The U.S. entry into WWI ended further production of the Colt Government Model .455 cal. Webley pistol to produce Colt M1911 .45ACP pistols our own use. The W in the serial numbers is purported to mean Webley. Many years ago, I subscribed to the National Automatic Pistol Collectors Association(NAPCA). Collectors stated that the .455 cal. Webley cartridge, being slightly longer than the .45 ACP cartridge, required a magazine to accomodate the longer cartridge and the receiver's magazine well machined to fit the .455 cal. Webley magazine. The .455 cal. will not chamber in the M1911/M1911A1 but the .45 ACP cartridge will chamber and fire in the Colt Government .455 cal. Webley pistol.
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Louis Losi
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Posted: Jun 02 2023 at 10:41am |
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I neglected to point out that all production of the Colt Government Model pistol with the letter C preceding the serial number are chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge, the only exception are serial numbers C29001 to C30500 which are chambered for the Webley & Scott .455 cal. cartridge.
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