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New guy from North Carolina

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New2brass View Drop Down
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 06 2021 at 7:38pm
@Smokepole, look at the receiver details!

@stjohnmc, look at the name under the rear sight on the right side. It is marked SAGINAW SG or SAGINAW S'G'
I suspect you will see the G and the apostrophe.

Saginaw Steering Gear Div of General Motors produced carbines at Saginaw Michigan and used SG or S.G.
There Grand Rapids Michigan location they used the S'G' on the receiver and parts made there.

Smokepole is correctly stating that the serial number is in the block assigned to Saginaw Michigan location, however there are Grand Rapids receivers with those numbers in a span of serial numbers.
They were filling one contract at two locations and delivered carbines are delivered carbines.

This is why there is a link in my signature to a request for Steering Gear carbines so we can find the serial span, groups of numbers used on one receiver or the other, possibility of duplicate serial numbers as well as an outside chance of an incomplete, but obvious receiver that was finished at the other location.
So front ring details and what it says that is obscured by the rear sight are key to this research


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stjohnmc View Drop Down
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Joined: Dec 02 2021
Location: Claremont, NC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stjohnmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2021 at 5:33am
I posted the survey answers on the link provided. Here is a copy for this link (if needed/wanted). Also looked at the stock survey, this one has no markings on the main stock. The top hand guard does have "I O" or "O I" depending on your orientation.

Question 1: Serial number -  3576699

 

Question 2: Initials above serial number -   S'G'

 

Question 3: Front ring details (use a capitol i for sanserif one) - period after CAL and another preceding 30, Ml font is Sans Serif

 

Question 4: Rear tang - Narrow

 

Question 5: Rear left receiver detail - squared ear

 

Question 6: Front and middle left detail – None detected

 

Question 7: Receiver bottom detail – None Detected

 

Question 8: Barrel manufacturer and date – Buffalo Arms, 7-1943

 

Question 9: Rear slide cut detail – Squared 

M. St. John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2021 at 8:42am
Re: Stock markings.
Only the SG carbines have additional marks in the slingwell.
The stocks for I-P/S'G' carbines produced at Grand Rapids only have the stock maker's stamp.
Here's the slingwell of a Robert Irwin stock for Saginaw Gear.

However the S'G' Ordnance acceptance stamps show that the stock was originally on a carbine produced at Grand Rapids.
This caused me some confusion when I first got it.  See http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/saginaw-owner-in-se-pa_topic5028.html

O I is probably an Overton handguard for Inland.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stjohnmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 07 2021 at 10:13am
Thanks Matt_X. I have triple checked the entire stock under glass, with side lighting, and see no markings on the stock anywhere. 
M. St. John
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SSNPingjockey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 4:20pm
Looks like an M2 pot belly stock, so shouldn’t have any Saginaw stamps on it.

That means the stock that is now on that rifle was not the original stock put on at the factory by Saginaw. Once the M2 (selective fire/automatic version of the M1) came out, they stopped manufacturing the early M1 stock and only made M2 stocks. The M2 stocks are beefier (I.e. the pot belly) with thicker wood in some places, have a longer barrel channel, and a cut out slot on the interior left side against the receiver to accommodate the M2 selector switch. Many M1 carbines received new or upgraded M2 stocks during the post-WWII rebuild period, where they also received the barrel band with the bayonet lug as well as the adjustable rear sight. Some M1’s may have retained their original WWII stocks for many years after the war and the M2 stocks could have been added anytime during the Korea or Vietnam era.  After WWII, if a stock needed to be replaced, the depot level and armory folks had M2 style stocks to replace them with. 
Chad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stjohnmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 5:54pm
Thank you for the information and your service Chad. Much appreciated. 

Is there a source I can check the markings on the receiver group to see if they are/could be original to the rifle? Matt
M. St. John
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